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But meanwhile, I'll place my bet:


1881:

Name: William T. Chapman
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William A.
Mother's Name: Sarah A.
Gender: Male
Where born: Canterbury, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 20 Pages Walk

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

Elizh. R. Chapman 14
Florence A. Chapman 12
Sarah A. Chapman 38
William A. Chapman 39 - occupation tanner
William T. Chapman 10


who could be this one:

Births Sep 1870
Chapman William Thomas Bridge 2a 672


Unfortunately, half the William Chapmans around are likely to have fathers named William. Hopefully, if WTC's father is William, the marriage certificate will give a middle initial / occupation for his father.

thank you

Been looking for a birth for WTC and to find him in the 1891, but there are too many of them to be sure. Need his father's name, from the marriage cert.

Come on back when you have it, and we'll do some more hunting. ;)

Thank you for all your efforts

I will look into freebdm as it seems a better search engine than the other 2 i have used so far.

again thank you

Helen

Ah! But how 'bout that marriage then??

That will give you William Thomas Chapman's age and father's name.

And:

Deaths Mar 1898
Chapman William Thomas 27 St. Olave 1d 148


If you're using FreeBMD for searches you have to be careful not to be too specific -- I just searched for Chapman deaths in St Olave Bermondsey (knowing now where they married), Mar 1896 to Dec 1901. There were a bunch, but that one is the match.

So if WTC was 27 when he died in 1898, he was born c1870.

Hi Kathryn

My apologise. we have a death certificate for Elizabeth which lists her father as Ephraim and we then went to the 1881 census for further details on her family. Siblings Mary and William and mother Mary.

we havent been able to go back further than that on this site or ancestry as the 1871 census doesnt list them.

Helen

Aha -- look here -- I searched for Chapman marriage to Elizabeth Baker (not specifying given name for Chapman):


Marriages Dec 1896
>> Baker Elizabeth St. Olave 1d 464
>> CHAPMAN William Thomas St. Olave 1d 464
Matthews Elizabeth Ann St. Olave 1d 464
Willett John William St. Olave 1d 464


My suspicious mind was wrong!

Of course, it would have saved considerable time and effort if you'd started out by stating Elizabeth's name. When you say "listed", where is that? You have the birth cert? marriage cert? Seriously. That was a bunch of my time ....

Thank you very much

His descendance isnt an issue as I am a daughter of Donald but we are very sketchy about Lau(w)rence and his ascendances. What you have found could fit the bill as there was a suspicion about laurence being a "bastard" but at present documents dont seem to be at hand although we have plenty for elizabeth.

Elizabeths maiden name is listed as baker and we have seemingly found her siblings and father who was ephraim.

Again many thanks for your help

Helen

And now I realize you're looking for living family ... ?

In 1901 he was living in St George Hanover Square.


Name: Lawrence W Chapman
Year of Registration: 1926
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's Surname: Lenny -- Elsie M Lenny
District: St George Hanover Square
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 707

Could be him.


Donald W Chapman 1928 Apr-May-Jun Lenny Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey

Kathleen F Chapman 1926 Oct-Nov-Dec Lenny St George Hanover Square London, Middlesex


Could be children.

The father's name -- you have it from Laurence's marriage certificate? My suspicion would be that the father's name was not Chapman. Not seeing a Thomas Chapman marriage to an Elizabeth that looks likely.

However, in 1891 there is this Elizabeth Chapman -- who is clearly shown as the daughter, *not* the wife, of the head of household:


Name: Elizabeth Chapman
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Fredk W
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Registration district: West Ham
Sub registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 67

Albert Chapman 15
Arthur Chapman 7
Charlotte Chapman 11
Elizabeth Chapman 19
Fredk Chapman 17
Fredk W Chapman 42
Joseph Chapman 9
Lily Chapman 3
Mary Ann Chapman 13
Maud Chapman 8
Walter Chapman 4


The "widow" designation in 1901 might be one of those for-appearances things.




I'd get that Lawrence birth cert and see what it says about the mother's and father's names.

Info helps too -- this is him in 1901 (he is not "son-in-law", he is son of servant, of course).


Name: Laurence Chapman
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Name: Elizabeth Chapman (widow)
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, London, England

Civil Parish: St John and St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St. Stephens
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: St Margaret and St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 82

Elizabeth Chapman 30
Laurence Chapman 3
Emma Dutton 38
Helen Lean 28
Ann Venn 33
John Venn 1
John D Venn 33
Jose M Venn 2

I wondered whether you might have searched for his birth and missed it if Laurence was actually spelled Lawrence. So I searched for La?rence.

http:://www.freebmd.org.uk

(click red "Search" in lower left)

Search for Lawrence Chapman born 1897, and there's a Lawrence William born in St Olave who I would suspect is yours.

We are trying to find Laurence William Chapman born 1897. We are unsure where he was born we know he was living with his mother (b 1870) in 1901 in Bermondsey and she was a servant but there is no listing of a father. His Father was Thomas William Chapman who we think might have been in the army but we dont have a date of birth for him. Thomas may have been dead before the 1901 census.

If anyone is decended from this side of the family any help would be appreciated.

cheers

Helen