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Hi really need any help that is being offerd up i have hit a brick wall on a Frederick Samuel Bellamy no DOB but must be around 1850 give or take i no he married a lady called ellen bellamy who was previously ellen neal i think but his son william bellamy is my great grandfather who married elizabeth gray im sure there all from devon posibly exeter

You need to get some solid facts from certificates - theres too many I thinks in your work - you dont have a brick wall at all - theres lots on there to work back from.

The GGF William Bellamy - did you get his marriage certificate to this Elizabeth Gray? When did he marry? What children did they have and when/where? If not how did you work out Fred was his dad?

Do you have Williams birth certificate? When was he born? Is that how you know his mother was Ellen Neal (but why the "I think"?)

Is this a bro of William?

Births Dec 1884
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Bellamy Frederick Samuel Exeter 5b 79




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Marriages Jun 1905
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BELLAMY Frederick Samuel Exeter 5b 183
STEVENS Ellen Exeter 5b 183


We need some dates Simon please. Working backwards.


Is this Williams marriage?


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Marriages Jun 1906
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>>>Bellamy William Exeter 5b 219
Bennett Bessie Exeter 5b 219
Frost Frederick Charles Exeter 5b 219
>>>>Gray Elizabeth Maud Exeter 5b 219

1901, both the boys are visitors at the Gard family - are these relatives? Are these your Bellamy's? What age is on the marriage cert for William

Name: Willie Bellamy
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Exeter
Ecclesiastical parish: St Sidwell
Town: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 225
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Bellamy 17
Willie Bellamy 13
Charles Gard 38
Ellen J Gard 42
Ellen J Gard 8

apologies i am new to this lol thankyou for your help i no that there is some information missing at the moment as i have not fully completed everything i do have certs,my ggf william bellamy we think as we cant prove at the moment is the son of frederick bellamy howerver frederick bellamy and ellen jane bellamy never married again we think as we can not find any certs but ellen jane bellamy then married charlie gard but the big question is william bellamy is he fredericks son or charlie guard? am i in fact a gard rather than a bellamy? the other issue i have is both of my ggggf are in fact bellamys although i only no of one at the moment. i will get some more info on here and hope you may put up with me to help solve this.

Heather yes willie bellamy is my ggf and i no frederick is his brother the problem i have is all the hard copy is at my fathers who is also on the case and he is feeding infomation to me to place on here hopefully at the weekend i shall have all the info we have on here, as i said earlier the brick wall is frederick bellamy willies father (we think) as we can not find any documentation on him although we no he died before 1905 as it is one one of the childrens marrige certs. again i will have to put all that info on here.

heather i have a summery of progress and problems to date as we did have someone look at this before for us in 2000 would there be anyway of sending you this so you would be able to confirm dates and certs for us im affraid i just dont no as much as i would like to go further without help both my father and i cant seem to find anything on frederick samuel bellamy apert from he died before 1905. would i be able to email you? once again thankyou for your help to date

simon

Ihave replied by pm simon but I think your best bet is to leave all the info you have on here as there are some sleuths much better than I who no doubt will come along to help you out.

Dont fret, Im sure it will become more clear with time :)

Just to recap then - that 1901 IS your Willie and his bro and the mother is their mother who married the Gard chap. Have you bought that cert? And what is Ellens surname on that?

Could this be the fathers death in St Thomas, Devon aged 46

Deaths Jun 1902
Bellamy Frederick 46 St Thomas 5b 24

Ok, I see she calls herself Bellamy so she either married to Fred or just assumed his surname. Have you got this certificate? As the Gard daughter was born after this marriage I think you can be fairly sure that you are a Bellamy. How did you get the name Neal for Ellen? Have you discounted the possibility that the boys were registered under mothers surname if she never married?

Marriages Jun 1892
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 224
Gard Charles Henry Exeter 5b 224

Have you found any of the Bellamys in the 1891 census? I cant see the boys there - there is a Fred Bellamy born in Exeter in a workhouse unmarried.Name: Fredk Bellamy
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England

Civil Parish: St Sidwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Exeter
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Exeter
Sub registration district: Exeter Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: The Workhouse Exeter Union


Simon, I have to shoot now and get some paid work done :) But Im sure more people will be along to help and Ive pmd you too.

The people on FTF have kindly come up with the following stuff::



When Ellen was Mrs Gard she was listed as aged 42.

I think she may have been born a Bellamy:

Births Dec 1855
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 73

I think this is her parents marriage:

Marriages Jun 1854
Bellamy William Thomas Exeter 5b 174
Gould John Blackford Exeter 5b 174
Norman Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 174
Reynolds Ann Exeter 5b 174


Then her mother, Frances, married (Matthew) Henry Neal:

Marriages Dec 1867
BELLAMY Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 168
MANNERING George Henry Exeter 5b 168
NEAL Matthew Henry Exeter 5b 168
STACEY Eliza Jane Exeter 5b 168


This should be the birth of William's brother:

Name: Frederick Samuel Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 79

Simon, I think you need to at least get the birth cert of the above Fred Sam and also look again for the birth cert of William. Its all very strange.

Simon, the guys on Family Tree Forum have produced this for Ellen - and I think that we may find that a father called Frederick Samuel Bellamy is just a name made up for the marriage cert. We still cant find Williams birth cert - but may be he has a different surname for some reason? So the best you can do is buy the birth cert of his brother Fred, the reference is given above. Of course IF that cert has a fathers name on it, it doesnt necessarily mean he is the same man who fathered William.

Anyway here goes - both boys were living with Ellen at one point and called Neal on the census


FRANCES SOPHIA NORMAN
Birth:
Christening: 22 MAY 1831 Saint Sidwell, Exeter, Devon
Parents:
Father: HENRY NORMAN
Mother: MARIA
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

1841, Frances Norman aged 10:
HO107; Piece 268; Book: 2; Civil Parish: St Sidwell; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 11; Page: 16; Line: 8

1851, Frances Norman aged 20 (indexed as aged 10)
HO107; Piece: 1868; Folio: 45; Page: 19

Marriages Jun 1854
Bellamy William Thomas Exeter 5b 174
Norman Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 174

Births Dec 1855
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 73

Possible death for William Thomas Bellamy:
Deaths Mar 1860
Bellamy William Exeter 5b _0

1861, Fanny Bellamy (widow b 1831) with dau Jane (not Ellen Jane) and with Frances' father, Henry Norman.
RG9; Piece: 1394; Folio: 113; Page: 10

Next Frances remarries:

Marriages Dec 1867
BELLAMY Frances Sophia Exeter 5b 168
NEAL Matthew Henry Exeter 5b 168

1871, Fanny with Ellen and younger dau Betsy aged 3, later to be called Elizabeth. Mr Neal isn't at home. They are all called Neal.
RG10; Piece: 2062; Folio: 55; Page: 49

1881, Fanny and Ellen as already posted. All called Neal.
RG11; Piece: 2150; Folio: 98; Page: 25

Birth of Ellen's son:
Name: Frederick Samuel Bellamy
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Exeter
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 79

I can't see William's birth.......

1891, Fanny and Ellen and Neal family as already posted. All called Neal.
RG12; Piece: 1688; Folio 53; Page 37

Ellen Bellamy marries Charles Henry Gard, using her birth name
Marriages Jun 1892
Bellamy Ellen Jane Exeter 5b 224
Gard Charles Henry Exeter 5b 224

Frances dies:
Deaths Dec 1897
Neal Frances 63 Exeter 5b 55 (she should be 66)

Matthew Henry (forgets his first name and) remarries:

Marriages Jun 1898
Goard Philippa Exeter 5b 188
Neal Henry Exeter 5b 188

1901, They are together and Matthew has remembered his first name!
RG13; Piece: 2041; Folio: 44; Page: 24

1916 Matthew dies:
Deaths Sep 1916
Neal Matthew H 68 Exeter 5b 100

Hey Simon. Here's your old thread.

And just guess how much I appreciate having wasted my time today "finding" all this all over again -- and more ... that people at another website were busy finding at the same time.