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I have Holder in my family tree my mother and her siblings all born in Abercynon, Father John Henry worked in the pits, moved from Herefordshire. Not sure if there is a link.

yeh its weird has got me puzzled. Thanks for your help :)

Sorry I had to go as some visitors arrived earlier.

Very strange isnt it - no sign of him and no sign of the boys birth or their marriage. Hmm, shall have to think about this but Im off to bed now.

they seem to be in llwanno acording to the search on genesreunited in 1891. I cannot find him in 1881 either as I am unsure whereabouts he would be I should think he would be in Wales.

So Robert is ok for the 71 and 61 living in Herefordshire (I couldnt find them in 91 on ancestry) Interesting in the 1861 a Joseph Holder aged 75 next door to this lot is shown as the Parish Clerk which may be handy when you come to concentrate of the Hoder lot :)

Name: Robert Holder
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Letton, Herefordshire, England

Civil Parish: Letton
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Weobly
Sub registration district: Weobly
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Holder 33
Elizabeth Holder 1
John Holder 36
Mary Ann Holder 7
Robert Holder 3
William Holder 5


1871

Name: Robert Holder
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Letton, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Letton
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Weobley
Sub registration district: Weobley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Holder 43
Elizabeth Holder 11
Henry Holder 8
John Holder 45
Robert Holder 13

Yep thats him however i have found them in the 1891 census :
Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOLDER, Robert Head Married M 33 1858 Farm Labourer
Letton
Herefordshire VIEW
HOLDER, Jane Wife Married F 30 1861
Llanstephan
Radnorshire VIEW

HOLDER, Francis Son Single M 4 1887
Breconshire VIEW

HOLDER, Rachel Daughter Single F 1 1890
Glamorganshire VIEW
STEPHEN, Edmund Lodger Widower M 45 1846 General Labourer
Haverfordwest
Pembrokeshire VIEW
DUNFORD, Stephen Lodger Married M 32 1859 General Labourer
Beeching Stoke
Wiltshire VIEW
GILLETT, William Lodger Single M 21 1870 General Labourer
Beeching Stoke
Wiltshire

It shows here Francis was born in Breconshire not Cefn which is Glamorgan.

?

Lets do some stuff for reference: Im blowed if I can find them in the 91 or 81

1901- dad is from Hereford and is a colliery worker. Young Francis is working at the colliery too.

Name: Francis Holder
Age in 1901: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Cefn, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanwonno
Ecclesiastical parish: Llanwonno St Wonnoand Rhondda Valley St David
Town: Abercynon
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Llanwonno
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 123
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Holder 1
Francis Holder 14
James Holder 4
Jane Holder 40
John H Holder 7
Rachel Holder 11
Robert Holder 42

Thank you no i've still had no luck with their marriage either. I seem unable to trace Robert in the 1881 Census as well am unsure where he is.

Oh dear, theres a lot of Francis Williams :( Do you have a middle name for him?

Have you found the marriage cert for Jane and Robert now? I cant find it sadly - there is a possible marriage of an Elizabeth Williams and a Robert Holder is on the same page but Birmingham :( SO very unlikely)

Marriages Jun 1884
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HOLDER Robert Birmingham 6d 136
Smith Sarah Ann Birmingham 6d 136
Thompson Joseph Birmingham 6d 136
WILLIAMS Elizabeth Birmingham

Yes I have bought Elizabeths birth certificate it shows that Jane was previously Williams.

So have you tried just as Francis Williams? Where did you get Janes surname - from one of the other kids certs?

Hi everyone,
I'm still trying to find Francis's birth. I now know his mother was called Jane Williams, father is Robert Holder, was born in approximately 1861 in Wales,Janes place of birth i believe is Radnorshire and the family mover to glamorganshire where the other children were born in abercynon.

Any ideas?
Aimee

Thanks for your help, I was wondering the same Reggie whether he was born before marriage as I know from relatives that his mother is a mystery no-one in the family knows any history about her or her side of the family. I will try and persue this line.

Thanks :)

As he was the eldest child, it's very likely that he was born before the marriage...........and registered under the mother's name.

This seems to be made even more likely by the fact that his birth was in Cefn, .........all the siblings were in Abercynon

You could buy one of the other kids birth certs to find out Jane's maiden name. Maybe he is Janes child from a first marriage and therefore registered under a different surname. You need to get one of the birth certs to see whether she is shown as having been married previously.

I am wondering if he was registered late as I cannot find a record of his parents marriage. His Father was Robert Holder and he married Jane (who i cannot trace maiden name for) All his siblings were born in pontypridd but can only find record for him in cardiff but his is about 3 years to late.

Aimee

If his age in 1901 was 14, he was born between 1st April 1886 and 31st march 1887.

1890 is much too late............

Where was he born?

Hi
Looking on the 1901 Census i have found Francis Holder with his family in Glamorgan wales his age indicates he was born around 1887 however looking on freeBMD I can find all his siblings births in pontypridd for the correct dates the closet I can find that seems applicable is 1890 in cardiff? any ideas how to find if this is the right one?

Thanks
Aimee