Find Ancestors

Hi all ...

I hope i can make this all as clear as possible & easy to understand

I'm just wondering if anyone can help with this little problem i have ..

My grandmother was CATHERINE SEPHTON b 1898 Liverpool - my dad's mum.

From the 1901 census i got this info ...

John Sephton father 42 sailor
Mary Sephton wife 39
Margaret Sephton dau 17
Catherine Sephton dau 2

(right time right area & a sailor as was vaguely remembered)

I thought this was them until i received her marriage cert ystdy which said her father was Richard Charles Sephton.

I then searched for Richards family & found him in 1891 ..
Richard C Sephton 32
Catherine Sephton 29 (poss maiden name Stanton)
Margaret Sephton 7

Then in 1898 Catherine was born but then the 2 children look like they were put with John & Mary in the 1901 census (im guessing Richards brother or cousin).

I found what could be Richards death in 1900 but not one for his wife Catherine. (either Stanton or Sephton).

Im thinking she may not have been able to cope with the children after he died .. then left them where they were & poss re married later.

My dad remembers a 'Daddy Jim' who he says was his mothers father & my aunt says was her step father.

Going on that, i found a marriage for Catherine ‘Sefton’ in 1907 to what could be a James Bernard Grimes in Liverpool .. which would make sense of the ‘Daddy Jim’.

Anyway .. could any of you great detectives put me in the right direction to finding out who Mary & John Sephton could be who brought up the girls ..

And also as to what could have happened to Catherine (snr)..

Thank you in advance for any help. It would be great to solve the mystery for my dad (& me!).
Lorna (in OZ)

I think this is Richard on the 1871 census. He does have a brother John but there is a 7 year age gap

1871 England Census
about Richard C Lephton
Name: Richard C Lephton
[Richard Charles Sephton]
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Cordelia
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 48
Household schedule number: 218
Household Members: Name Age
Cordelia Lephton 35
Elias E Lephton 3
Eslin A Lephton 15
John Lephton 37
John H Lephton 5
Richard C Lephton 12

This might be the marriage for John Sephton and Mary

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HARRISON James Liverpool 8b 236
PRESTON Mary Catherine Liverpool 8b 236
SEPHTON John Liverpool 8b 236
WHITBY Jane Irving Liverpool 8b 236

This certificate would name John's father...providing of course it is the correct one. I searched for John Sephton marriages in Liverpool.

Same family in 1881

1881 England Census
about Richard C. Sefton
Name: Richard C. Sefton
[Richard Charles Sephton]
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Cordelia
Gender: Male
Where born: L Pool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 74 South St
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Bookbinder

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 62
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William J. Green 19
Cordelia Sefton 45
Elias E. Sefton 13
Esther Sefton 75
John Sefton 47
John H. Sefton 15
Richard C. Sefton 22
Esther A. Wright 25


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3647; Folio: 42; Page: 7;

Christine

First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1862 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRESTON Mary Catherine W Derby 8b 344

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears to be Mary Catherine Preston from the information given. As they appear to have had no children of their own there are no birth certificates to check.

1901 England Census
about Mary Sefton
Name: Mary Sefton
[Mary Sephton]
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: 1862
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: Liverpool St Phillip
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: West Derby, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 211
Household Members: Name Age
John Sefton 42
Mary Sefton 39
Margaret Sefton 17
Catherine Sefton 2

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3498; Folio: 44; Page: 36.

This query shows why it is important to buy the certificates !!!

Hi,

Re the marriage Pam posted (I have copied below:

Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HARRISON James Liverpool 8b 236
PRESTON Mary Catherine Liverpool 8b 236
SEPHTON John Liverpool 8b 236
WHITBY Jane Irving Liverpool 8b 236

According to Lancs Bmd which is usually very reliable - This John married Jane WHITBY (not Mary Preston.

However, there is another possible in 1886:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1886
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SEPHTON John SHOLICAN Mary Everton, St. George Liverpool 2018WD/11/486

Dea x

FreeBmd has it down as SHOLICAR

Marriages Jun 1886
BAKER Aaron W. Derby 8b 560
RENNIE Mary Ellen W. Derby 8b 560
**SEPHTON John W Derby 8b 560
**Sholicar Mary W. Derby 8b 560

Dea x

Lorna,

Does the address 49 Hankin (or Hankers) St., Liverpool mean anything to you?

Around 1915 ?

Dea x

Thank you for your help Pam, Christine & Dea!!

Pam .. you're so very right about the importance of certs.

I wasn't even querying Catherines parents as i thought i had that in the bag ..why wouldnt i with the census info looking straight forward ..

i was actually looking for my grandads fathers name on that cert so what a lesson that was! (Grandad was greek so thats another story altogether!)

Thank you Pam & Christine for finding them in the 1871 & 1881 census'. It says Richard was a book binder in 81 & 91 census so we definitely have them.

As for Mary .. looks like she could be a 'Sholicar' from Dea findings .. thank you Dea.

(i googled the name & the real one is Sholicar not Sholican).

If you discover anything else ladies i'd really appreciate it & if i do i'll let you know.

Dea ... you seem to be my Genes Angel! You helped me with the Purcell/Kelly/Hayes problem a few weeks ago.

I have one marriage cert back but still waiting on the other ..(obviously the most important one) .. so i will re cap for you & let you know the outcome when i receive it.

Thank you again
Lorna

OOhhh - thank you Lorna - I feel my 'wings' growing! xx

The reason I asked about that Liverpool address was that I found some army records on Ancestry for a James Grimes in Liverpool with wife Catherine and I thought they may belong to your 'Daddy Jim' ?

James Grimes
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Age at enlistment: 29
Birth Parish: Kirkdale
Birth County: Lancashire
Document Year: 1914
Regimental number: K13169
Number of Images: 6

Dea x

Oh forgot to mention Dea ... I've just asked my mum & dad if they recall Hankin or Hankers St. They both said they recall that name of street on L'pool but not ringing bells for anything more significant.

Why you ask Dea?

Ha ... weird .. our messages just crossed over from the other sides of the world .. see you do have wings!!!!

wow ... now there's a thing!

Thank you so much for that Dea.

There's a bit of an age gap there tho' .. Catherine was born in 1862 & James 1885 but without any children to hold her back she could have passed as younger i suppose .. wasnt uncommon eh.

A definte to think about.

Thanks Dea!

Make sure you keep those wings dust free. Dont know what id do if you neglected them!
Lorna

Sorry, I had lost track of the birth dates - too many Catherines !!

Probably not him then - I will dig further.

Dea x


PS - Did you ever get those Hayes/Kelly wedding certs? - Was I right?

Dea x

I recieved 2 wed certs ... one was for the 1st wedding for Mary Jane Kelly & Alexander Purcell .. (the one in 1878) & the cert that started this confusion with Catherine.

but the one im waiting on is the most important which will see if you're right Dea... the one between Mary Jane Kelly & James Hayes in 1891.

The 1st cert says her father was Thomas Kelly - Gen labourer. If the 2nd one states the same father then there's a massive chance its the same Mary Jane Kelly (& of course a chance that's its not .. as was proved with this thread!) .

I will let you know on Monday Dea.

I havent got a computer at home yet so i cant mail over the wknd.

Thank again!
Lorna

Hi Dea.

Mum said id received the 3rd cert today so she read it over the phone to me ... im gutted .. its not the same Mary jane.

The first one reads

Widnes
Mary Jane Kelly 21, Alexander Purcell 28
1878
Father name - Thomas Kelly gen lab

(then Alexander died in 1879 leaving her a Purcell & living with his father Bartholomew & family

The second one ..

Bolton
Mary Jane Kelly 25, James Hayes 32 (wid)
1891
Fathers name - William Kelly dock lab.

Now im back to square one.

Here is the link again to the original question.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1030317

I'll start from scratch again on Monday. If you see anything to help Dea i'd be really grateful as i am anyway for the time you've spent for me.

Have a good wknd!
Lorna