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I think this could be the Mr Dickenson I don't know who he is or was my Grandmother told my Mother that a man would visit her to see if she was O K at the school I think she was living with the family before she was sent to the school
Beryl

Hi Kathryn
I will send for the birth certificate of James then I will have a few more clues, and will be in touch again
You are great I think you are a detective on the genes site.
Thanks beryl

I wonder whether this might be your Mr. Dickenson in 1881:


Name: Jeremiah Dickenson
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Julia
Gender: Male
Where born: Dublin, Ireland

Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 36 Pump St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Tin Plate Worker

Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: St George


Pump St is about a half mile from Bengal St.

It's possible this is mother Anne's death:


Name: Ann Foy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Year of Registration: 1885
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 37
District: Manchester (1837-1924)
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 171

Also in the IGI, probably from the same source:

(searched for births 1876 +/- 5 years, parents Patrick Foy and Anne)


Anna Foy
Birth: 04 NOV 1874 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Father: Patrick Foy
Mother: Anna Connor


But aha! This one is extracted from a genuine record:


Anna Foy
Birth: 18 NOV 1872 Dublin City, , Dublin, Ireland
Father: Patrick Foy
Mother: Anne Connor
>> Batch No.: C701506


There are two other Foys in that batch -- born the same month, different parents.

There are actually multiple entries for what seems to be your Anne's birth -- looking like she's in the tree of a few Mormons who have been busily submitting info.

IGI has this -- a submitted and completely unreliable piece of info that could still be correct. ;)


Patrick Foy
Birth: 1848 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland
Spouse: Anna Connor
Marriage: 1873 Dublin, Dublin, Ireland


James Foy's birth cert would give Anne's surname.

I oughta be working! ;)

Could this be James? -- birth and death:


Name: James Foy
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Holywell
County: Flintshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 255

Name: James Foy
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 1
District: Holywell
County: Flintshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 172


1881 census:


Name: Patrick Foy
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne
Gender: Male
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England

Street address: Castle View
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Cooper

Name: Anne Foy
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Patrick
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Name: Anne Foy
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Patrick
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Flint
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Holywell
Sub registration district: Flint
ED, institution, or vessel: 10

Anne Foy 30
>>> Anne Foy 8
James Foy 1
Mary Foy 6
Patrick Foy 36


How I wish I'd had that info to start with !!!!

Kathyryn
I can not thank you enough for all the time you have
been searching and what information you have found for me.MANY MANY THANKS.
I don't have a lot of information about my grand mother I know her fathers name was Patrick her mother Anne the has two girls and one boy James who died at one year old in Flint in 1881,it was then I think her Mother died as well her Father went to Manchester into the work house not sure when he died ,Because my Grandmother was deaf she was as I mentioned to you sent away to school I know her sister was named Mary they were born in Dublin I think when they came to England they must have come on hard times when her father went into the work house too am a little puzzled as how the name Carroll was mentioned I am wondering if Ellen was the mothers sister I will try and find out what my GGrandmothers name was before she married my GGrandfather.An other little bit of information on my Grandmothers papers it mentioned a guardian as a Mr J I dickenson of 14 Bengal st as the writing is very faint I am struggling to read it's also think my ggfather lived in Liverpool at some time he was a cooper.Kathryn thanks once more for all your help and your time you are great Beryl

In 1891:

Ellen Carrol 6
Joseph Carrol 39
Mary C Carrol 13
Mary E Carrol 36
Timothy Carrol 16

at 6 Fox St, Ancoats, Manchester.

Probably this marriage:

Marriages Mar 1872
>> Carroll Joseph Manchester 8d 686
Clifford Mary Manchester 8d 686
Hughes Thomas Manchester 8d 686
>> Molloy Mary Ellen Manchester 8d 686

Interesting history --

http://www.aidan.co.uk/photo1798.htm

(modern) photograph of Bengal St mills.

Oh, for the love of ...


The search for Ellen Carroll in 1881 turned up:


Name: Mary Ellen Carroll
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joseph
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

>>>>>>> Street address: 31 Bengall St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Machinist

Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Joseph Carroll 29
Mary Carroll 3
Mary Ellen Carroll 27
Richard Carroll
Timothy Carroll 6
Mary Sheridan 64


who didn't show up on a search for BENGAL street, because the ^%(#(^$@ enumerator for that *#^%(#$^ part of the street (district 9) has spelled it BENGALL.

!!!!

How much time have I just spent ...

What do you think of that one??

In 1891, this Ellen Carroll:


Name: Ellen Carroll
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Martin
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 21 Leigh St
Occupation: Cotton Millhand
Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Manchester
Sub registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 9

Ellen Carroll 38
Edward Hagan 50
Maria Hagan 2
Mary Hagan 42
Frances Lindon 66


is living in the enumeration district that seems to be immediately to the east of Bengal Street -- from what I can tell from the street names in the description of the district in 1891 and looking at Google maps. Leigh St in the censuses is clearly what is now George Leigh St, from the enumeration district descriptions.


... in 1891, one side of Bengal St is in district 7 (odd numbers). The addresses are all street numbers, no courts like you named. (Is "Garards" the right spelling?)

More odd numbers on Bengal St are in district 6. I think I might let you continue the search for and examination of addresses, if you have Ancestry! Start here:

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/list.aspx?dbid=6598&path=Lancashire.Manchester.Ancoats

and look first at the description, to find the various districts where Bengal St is, and then click on the district number to see the census pages. All I've seen so far are street numbers.


Anyhow, though, I do think you might consider that Ellen Carroll in 1891, who is living within what seems to be a couple of blocks of Bengal St.


It's hard to say which Ellen Carroll she might be in 1881. But it's conceivable she was a sister of the James Carroll in my previous post, who had some connection to an Ellen Foy ...

How convenient. The census page for this household in 1881:

Name: Ellen Carroll
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Dublin, Ireland

Civil Parish: Gorton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 16 Haigh St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: K N Factory

Registration district: Chorlton
Sub registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 33

Ellen Carroll 26
James Carroll 6
Mary Ann Carroll 8
Peter Carroll 3
James Gagan 50
Margrett Gagan 12
Martin Gagan 14
Winifred Gagan 45


Is blank. Wondered whether it might be the same person, or another one worth looking at.

I'd see what might be found about that Ellen Carroll on Leigh St in 1891, anyhow!

Aha, could we have something here? In 1881:


Name: Ellen Foy
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Galway, Ireland

Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: Darnley St 16 CT 5 Ho
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Occupation: Sempstress

Registration district: Toxteth Park
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 20

Catherine Carroll 37
Ellen Carroll 4
James Carroll 38
James Carroll
Mary Carroll 11
Sarah Carroll 8
Thomas Carroll 16
William Carroll 13
Ellen Foy 60


Foys and Carrolls together -- a start??

Hi Beryl -- re your Q in other thread, not born in England but all 4 grandparents were. ;)

Still needing a bit of info from you -- me being just one of the puzzle-lovers who hang out here in this case, you see.

Dates, especially. Your grandmother Anne Foy was at the school for the deaf in 1884? But how old was she / when born, who were her parents ...?

Could this be her in 1881?

Name: Anne Foy
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Michael
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire

There's no notation under disability for that person.

There are a lot of Ann/Anne Foys, so that's a long shot guess.


Aha, I got smart and searched trees here at GR, and you have Anne Foy born 1873 in Dublin. The parents in the household above are shown as born in Galway.

What I'm getting at -- if we know some approx ages and the birth surname of Anne's mother, we might be able to find this Ellen in census or marriage records. She could be a sister of Anne's mother (although not likely if Anne was the one whose mother was Ellen, as above!) and Carroll could be her birth or married surname, she could be the sister of Anne's father, with Carroll her married surname, etc.

On the other hand, she could be a family friend or an older cousin ... or it may just stay a mystery. On the death cert for one of my people in 1897, the informant is someone I've never heard of, who doesn't seem to exist in any record, identified as grandmother of the girl who died, which she most definitely wasn't, and I haven't yet got any clue who she was!

But if you do have other info to offer up, I'd still be willing to take a poke at it. So far, though, we're lacking some rather crucial facts!

I do have a couple of old friends in Ontario named Foy, so you never know ... ;)

Hi Kathryn
The only lead that I have is my grandmother went to a school for the deaf in Yorkshire on the papers that I acquired from the school about my Grandmother was she had an Aunt this was Ellen Carrol living at this address after this I have come to a stop my Grandmothers maiden name was Anne Foy
Thanks Beryl

Beryl, is it likely that someone unrelated could help find something useful? From censuses, BMDs, like that ...

If so, you could give any info you do have, like names - of the Foys, the Carrolls, your gr-grfather ...

Just for instance, if it's possible that your gr-grfather's sister, say, or an aunt, married a Foy or a Carroll, it might be able to figure that out from census and marriage records.

In the 1881 census, there is no Foy or Carroll household on Bengal St in Manchester.

I am trying to find any information on the Carroll or Foy family living in Manchester about 1884 in GarardsCourt Bengal st Oldham road Manchester.
I think that they might be some relation to my GGrand father.
Beryl