Find Ancestors

Hi I am trying to find my dad's side of the family and know that his grandfather was John Brown who was originally from portugal and came over to Liverpool on a merchant ship (something to do with H G Wells apparently, not too sure of this!) He was a ships cook and settled in Liverpool married Ellen and had many children, one of whom was Olive my grandmother. She had a sister Doris, brothers, Thomas, John, Eric, Frederick, Johnathan and Junty (this is all I know so far). I would apreciate any help and information or if anyone knows how I can search ships records, the problem is that John Brown is my great grandfathers nationalised English name I do not know his name at birth.

Cheers for any help.

Hi Casey,

can you give a rough time frame please?

Louisa

is this your grandmother's birth?

Name: Olive Ellen Brown
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 676

Hi Louisa, many thanks for your quick response! My nana Olive was born 15th September 1908 she'll be 100 this year! Her full name at birth wa Olive Muriel Brown and infact she married Noel Brown and so remained with the same name. Her father John Brown the ships cook from Portugal was born in 1862 I think. He married Ellen but as yet I have not been able to find out her maiden name. They were quite an affluent family apparently. I did find them in the 1901 census but this had only 4 of the children on as the rest were born after that. Is this any help>>

For reference purposes, the 1901 Census

Besides John Brown's birth place of Portugal, it does say BS on the image .... which means British Subject. Which means that John Brown could have been his birth name!


1901 Census

Name: John Brown
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Portugal <<<< on the image it has B. S.

Civil Parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby, Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 85
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Brown 31 b.ca 1870, Formby, Lancashire
Frederick Brown 8 b.ca 1893, Liverpool
John Brown 39 Ships Cook seas
John J Brown 4 b.ca 1897, Liverpool
Jonathan E Brown 2 b.ca 1899, Liverpool
Thomas G Brown 7 months b.ca 1900, Liverpool

Address:- 14 Lampeter Road, West Derby



If you get your grandmother's birth certificate, it will give you her mother's maiden name.

Go to www.gro.gov.uk, click on Ordering Ceritifcates Online and follow instructions. The GRO reference number is volume 8b page 676 if that is your grandmother's registration that Louisa found.


Each certificate will cost £7




sylvia

I wonder if this could possibly be their marriage registration???

Keep it on one side until you get the birth certificate which will tell you Ellen's maiden name,


But Ormskirk is the registration centre for Formby, which is where she says she was born on the 1901 Census



Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)

Barron Ellen Ormskirk 8b 1253
BROWN John Ormskirk 8b 1253



If this does turn out to be their marriage, then you could buy this certificate, and it will have on it the names of the two fathers, their occupations etc.


That will let you get further back.



sylvia

This could be her in 1891, it is in the area of Formby

Name: Ellen Barron
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert L
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Female
Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: North Meols
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Ormskirk
Sub-registration district: North Meols
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Barron 12
Elizabeth Barron 21
Ellen Barron 23 Dressmaker
Emma Barron 14
Isabella Barron 28
Jane Barron 48
Jane Barron 20
Margaret Barron 16
Minnie Barron 10
Robert Barron 4
Robert L Barron 57 b.ca 1834, North Meols, Lancashire, Relieving Officer
Thomas Barron 26 Assistant Relieving Officer


Address:- Birch St




BUT get that birth certificate to find her maiden name,

then get the marriage certificate to find the names of the fathers.



sylvia

Hi Sylvia, thankyou so much for your help it has been really useful. I do have my grandmothers birth certificate and her mothers maiden name was Ellen Mackarell, I will try and search for her marriage cert now, many thanks again.

Hi Casey,

Have you seen this in the National Archives catalogue?

HO 144/1257/235359 Nationality and Naturalisation:
Brown, John, from Portugal. Resident in Liverpool. Certificate 23359 issued 25 April 1913. 1913

If it's your guy, these papers are usually a min of information - my hubby's great grandads listed his mum and dad, date and place of birth etc

Regards

Angie

Wow Angie, thankyou so much this is exactly the thing I need, Ill get staright on to it now.