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I am trying to find information about my Great Grandfather Charles William Taylor, born about 1837 in Hoxton Middlesex. He was a Widower when he married my Great Grandmother - Martha Lucy Tovey in February 1880. They had 3 daughters but he disappears after the youngest child was born in 1885. Apparently, he left his wife & the children were sent to Barnados, Barkingside.
The only record I can find for him is on 1881 Census.
According to the Marriage cetificate he was a Butcher & his deceased father also named Charles William, was a Bricklayer.
They appear to have lived in Stepney/West Ham/Plaistow.
Can anyone please help me.
Regards
Maureen
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1861 census
Name: Charles Taylor
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Greenwich St Alphege
Town: Greenwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 251
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Austin 22
Thomas Lane 17
Mary Palmer 20
Richard Rudner 21
Charles Taylor 24
June x
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June may be fetching this, but for ref, just in case:
Name: Charles W. Taylor
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Martha L.
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address: Pelly Rd 3 Caledonian Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Butcher
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: West Ham
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Charles W. Taylor 43
Edith E.M. Taylor
Martha L. Taylor 25
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1871 maybe
Name: Charles Taylor
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Matilda
Gender: Male
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Stratford Le Bow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
Town: Bow
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bow
ED, institution, or vessel: 48
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 194
Household Members: Name Age
Ada Taylor 5 bow
Charles Taylor 32
Matilda Taylor 29 Wareamtin, Surrey, England
age out a bit
but cant find them on another census
June x
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Hi June & Kathryn,
Thanks for looking - I only managed to find him on 1881 Census. The other entries are possibilities but can't find any concrete evidence that they relate to my Charles Taylor - wish it wasn't such a common name!!
Maureen
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Well, let's see.
Your Charles William Taylor was a widower when he married Martha.
The CT found by June in 1871 was married to Matilda.
So we toddle off to
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
and search for the marriage of a Charles Taylor to a Matilda 1861-1866 (5-yr-old child in 1871, born in Bow).
In 1861 the Charles Taylor who seems to be yours was living in Greenwich. He seems to be yours because he's the only Charles Taylor in the censuses born c1837 in Hoxton.
So:
Marriages Dec 1862
Bryant Robert Greenwich 1d 906
>> Collins Matilda Greenwich 1d 906
>> Taylor Charles William Greenwich 1d 906
Tookey Susannah Maria Greenwich 1d 906
seems to be a pretty good bet for the first marriage.
So now we toddle back to FreeBMD and look for the marriage of a Charles Taylor to Martha between 1871 (when he's with Matilda) and 1881 (when he's with your Martha).
I'll guess Mile End -- and oh yes, of course, we know the answer because you already gave Martha's name.
Marriages Mar 1880
Henderson Mary Jane Mile End 1c 816
Simpson Joseph Edward Mile End 1c 816
>> Taylor Charles William Mile End 1c 816
>> Tovey Martha Lucy Mile End 1c 816
Now, I can't think of any reason at all to think that the Charles Taylors in the 1861, 71 and 81 censuses are *not* the same Charles Taylor, but there's one way to be sure, at least as regards the 1871 Charles Taylor.
Order the Taylor-Collins marriage certificate and compare the details to the details on the Taylor-Tovey certificate!
That's what I'd call "concrete evidence" that these are the same Charles Taylor.
You said you wanted to find information about him, and it seems that that's how you would do it.
By the way -- your Charles is recorded as "Butcher" in 1881. The 1871 Charles is "Builder". Interestingly, the other heads of household on the page in 1881 were both builders (with plasterers on the preceding page). I wonder whether Charles's occupation was misread at the time.
Meanwhile, you might also want to look at the people in this household in 1881:
Name: Ada Taylor
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Esther
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoxton, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Dressmakers Assistant
Name: Henry Taylor
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Esther
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Bookbinders Finisher
Civil Parish: Pancras
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 81 Whitfield St
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Ada Taylor 15
Esther Taylor 36
Henry Taylor 37
Henry J. Taylor 8
I think that's Charles's daughter Ada. There's no such Ada in the 1871 census, other than his daughter. So I'd bet that Henry is Charles's brother.
I suspect this is Charles in 1851:
Name: Charles Taylor
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Horbelth, Middlesex, England (it says Shoreditch)
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Town: Greenwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 178
William Hadley 12
Ann Newton 29
Ann Newton 10 Mo
James Newton 23
Charles Taylor 12
so unfortunately there's no evidence of Charles and that Henry in a household together.
This looks like Ada again in 1891:
Name: Ada Taylor
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bow, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: London
County/Island: London
... but after that it would take some slogging to compare all the Adas in 1901 born 1866-7 in Bow with all the Ada Taylors who married 1896-1901 to match up husband's surname. If you wanted to try to find her descendants, if any.
Anyhow. I'm not seeing the slightest reason to think that the 1861 and 71 Charles-s aren't your Charles, but that could be pretty well confirmed by the first marriage certificate, if you wanted.
Also not seeing your Charles after that, though! The reason could be something like this:
Name: Charles William Taylor
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Year of Registration: 1888
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 50
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 415
but it's unlikely that even a death certificate would confirm anything.
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The death cert might give his occupation and the informant might be family
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Ah, true! If the occupation were butcher ... or builder ... but it seems unlikely the informant would have been family, if he'd done a disappearing act.
Maybe he didn't, though. Maybe the kids were placed in care because he died, rather than because he absconded.
Ah, I just paid attention to what Maureen said from the marriage certificate:
"According to the Marriage cetificate he was a Butcher & his deceased father also named Charles William, was a Bricklayer."
So my wild and crazy theory about "Butcher" being an error in 1881 was no good. But with his father being a bricklayer, he might still have been a builder in 1871. ;)
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1861 maybe with brother henry
Name: Charles Taylor
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Bride
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Registration district: London City
Sub-registration district: London City South West
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 745
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Dunkley Taylor 30 sister
Charles Taylor 24
William Henry Taylor 17 brother
same Henry as 1881
1891
Name: William H Taylor
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Esther
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: All Souls
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Esther Taylor 45
Henry I Taylor 18
William H Taylor 46
June x
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And of course same Henry as 1891, with niece? Ada living with him. ;)
But the 1861 Charles you first found fits so nicely -- born in Hoxton, living in Greenwich where the Charles in question seems to have married ...
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Hi,
What a lot to take in - thank you all so much for all the trouble you've taken. I will certainly be looking into it all & maybe ordering some certificates.
However, I don't think he died as the family seem to have disowned him completely. He was never mentioned & my father didn't know anything about his Maternal Grandfather. I would have thought that if he had passed away he might have known this. All my father knew was that his Grandfather left his Grandmother sometime after 1885.
It's a big mystery as nobody in the family knows anything else about Charles Taylor. I have several very old photos but none that include him.
Thank you once again .
Maureen
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