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I don't suppose anyone will be able to actually find John Smith for me but you might be able to point me in the right direction as to where to look next.

John Smith Dob and Place of birth unknown
Mary O'Connor from Ireland (possibly Waterford) born approx 1885

In 1910 both are together as married living in Darnford, Lichfield, Staffordshire where their daughter Ada is born, John Smith is listed as a soldier in the 3rd Bat South Staffs Reg (This is a reserve Battalion and no records were kept).

1912 Still in the same place, Johns still a soldier in the 3rd South Staffs for the birth of their 2nd daughter Mary (known as Molly)

By 1914 and the birth of Fanny (known as Frances) they are still in the same place and John is just listed as seving with the South Staffs Reg, no Batallion listed but John registered the birth. Frances had always believed that he died/went to war before she was born but I have since found that he actually registered her birth.

It's believed that he changed battalion either shortly before or after her birth at the onset of WW1. He certainly didn't remain in the 3rd bat throughout the war as they were never sent on active service and they remained in the uk.

In approx 1918 the 3 children were in a convent/childrens home in Birmingham. Much speculation around this but nothing definate.

1922 Mary O'connor remarries William Wilson still living at the same address where she has another child also named Mary, later moves and has another daughter. On her marriage certificate she is listed as widowed.

I believe that John Smith died around the time the 3 daughters were sent to the convent but again cannot be sure.

I have searched ancestry with no luck.
I have contacted the baracks for the south staffs (at Whittington)
I have looked through the cwgc site but there are too many listed to display.
I havn't got enough information to contact kew yet.
I have tried to contact a few people through Genes but again with no luck.

Can anyone help at all...I know it's a big ask. xxx

Ps Frances was my nanna. Mary O'connor had a sister named Margaret Mary (known as May) she married George Williams and had what appears to be 3 children but I can't seem to find a contact for them either to see if they have any further information. John and Mary were witnesses to Mays and Georges marriage in 1915 and May and George witnessed Mary's 2nd marriage to William Wilson in 1922. (In case any of that becomes relevent) Apart from the Williams who I can't find everyone this concerns is either dead or happy for me to post the details above. xxx

I gather you did not find their ( John & Mary ) marriage either ?


PS were the Smith children reunited with their mother when she remarried ?
Just curious .

You have at least Mary's Father's name from her second marriage certificate OR from her sister's marriage which will help IF you pinpoint John & Mary's marriage.

possible marriage index
Manchester mar qtr 1907
john william smith/mary o'connor
vol 8d
page 242
you could ask for ref. check on marys fathers name and if it wasn't the same as 2nd marriage you would be refunded part of the £7 if you ordered it from

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

http://www.ww1soldiers.co.uk/index.php
have you tried this site?

You appear to have John's 'actual' address at the time - what was it please?

Thia can be checked against the entries on the National Roll.

Dea x

Thankyou so much everybody I really wasn't expecting anyone to reply to this one as it's so hard.

I havn't been able to find a marriage for them... I'm assuming it must be back in Ireland and with no specific date it will be hard to pin point although Ada was the 1st child so I expect it to be 1909-1910 ish.

The Manchester marriage is actually John Smith to Ethel Pearson, the other woman on the page...I already Have a copy of that one but thankyou, it's nice to know that others are thinking along the same lines and it's not just me being daft.

From both her sisters marriage and her second marriage her fathers name is Peter O'Connor. Sorry I should have added that. And her sister was born in 1893 in case that helps. I have only found one 1901 census with a Peter, Mary and Margaret O'connor on all together and the dates dont fit with the ages.

Janice I shall look at that site, it's one I havn't seen yet so thats great.

Dea, Darnford even now is tiny, back then it was litterally one row of about 5 houses so they never actually had a number but were put down as "The Cottages" Darnford (Darnford is near Fulfen and Whittington under Lichfield District in Staffordshire if that helps) Margaret and Mary lived next door to each other. (or at least certainly in the same row).

The children never went back to their mother :( even after she remarried and had more children. They did try to keep in contact but only saw her once as adults. It concerns other families as she had more children so I don't want to put too much but I don't think she had much of a choice in the matter. It's a very sad story. I would love to be able to "claim him" especially for my nanna who believed he never even saw her born. The poor man too who still fought for us all leaving behind such tiny babies. :( xx

What about a war memorial for the area where he lived? may be someone could do a look for you for his name if you don't live in the area

You have my sympathies. I have been searching for a J Smith for years, Mother Mary father John. Clearly not yours as they are from the North East, but I have scoured Ancestry even written to the WGC as he died fighting in France WW1 but no luck and I feel gutted. I really hope you find him. xx

Cheers Janice. I do live still in Lichfield and have tried my hardest to search war memorials and local library etc although one person has sugested local newspapers of the time which I havn't done yet but maybe thats an option. I'm not even sure if he origionated from Staffordshire though, there is always a possibility he came from Ireland with Mary I suppose. :(

Hi Mary did the WGC have anything that they could send you? The problem I have come across is that it seems the only ones with family listed are those that have already been claimed as belonging to a family most just have name and service number, maybe an age and a rough area of birth but I have nothing except for a name on a birth certificate. In fact I even doubted if John Smith existed untill I realised that he had registered my nanna himself.

looks like you will be another one waiting for the 1911 census!!

I love you people. Writting this in tears of Joy. From the website Janice suggested. Thankyou so much my darling Janice. xxx

KIA GIVENCHY. SON OF MR & MRS E SMITH, 11 LITTLETON ST. EAST, WALSALL, STAFFS. H’D OF MRS SMITH. DARNFORD COTTAGES, WHITTINGTON, STAFFS. ELDER BROTHER HARRY SMITH ALSO SERVED. BN. WALSALL, STAFFS. EN. WALSALL, STAFFS. REGULAR, 13 YEARS SERVICE. SERVED S.A.WAR. (LM 08.01.15) D.C.M. AWARDED. (LM 15.01.15) SERVED AS 6250 CPL, "B"CO.2ND BN.S.STAFFS.RGT., AWARDED D.C.M. RETURNED FROM TRENCHES UNDER FIRE TO GET AN AMBULANCE. (WO 20.02.15) AT FRONT SINCE 08.14. AWARDED D.C.M. AGED 34. (LM 22.01.15) DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT AT BECCELARE, PASSCHENDAELE RD., WHILST TAKING AN URGENT MESSAGE. (LM 09.04.15) DEATH REPORTED. (LM 16.04.15) REPORTED AS SHOT THROUGH HEAD WHILST LEADING HIS COMPANY. (WO 17.04.15) DEATH REPORTED.

SO pleased for you Gemma and Well Done Janice !!

I am off to have a look at that site!

Dea x

Has anybody any ideas what "KIA GIVENCHY" means?
The LM with the dates is obviously where it was reported in the Lichfield Mercury and the same with WO is Walsall Observer.
And being a CPL that would mean he was classes as an officer?
I can't put into words how I feel. I can't say thankyou enough. xx

Gemma i am so pleased you got an answer from that sight and know know a bit more about him

Think Kia Givenchy is in France

I was wondering that but decided - Killed in Action at Givenchy lès la Bassée, N. France would seem to 'fit the bill'?

Dea x

From cwgc site same service number
Name: SMITH, JOHN
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: South Staffordshire Regiment
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Date of Death: 10/03/1915
Service No: 6250
Awards: D C M
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 21 and 22.
Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL

KIA= Killed in Action.
Givenchy is probably the place where he was killed.
A corporal is not classed as an officer . if he had been he would have been awarded a Cross As an "other erank" he was awarded a.Medal.

John

Cheers for that too Janice. They do pictures of some of the memorials too don't they. Oh my.

Thats 3 different puzzles that I've been working on for months I've put on the site the last 3 days and every one has been solved within just a few hours. xx