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My grt grandmother was Elizabeth Parkes born 1851 Hartshill her father was George her Mother was Ellen. My grandfather was Walter Charles Barlow born 1876, brothers George 1871 Wiliam 1873 all born Dundess America Canada West all Canada British Subjects. My grt grandfather was Charles Barlow I only know this as he is on my grandfathers marriage certificate as deceased that is all I know about him. i am trying to find out when my grt grandmother went out and why and did she marry my grt grandfather there and was he english or not she was back in England in 1881 having married Dominic Reid in 1879 atherstoneand married as Elizabeth Parkes my grandfather and his brothers are down with the surname Reed but on the 1891 they revert back to the surname Barlow they have now spelt Reed as Reice.

ancestry.co.uk have all the passenger lists as well as findmypast

This one's a real puzzle! I can't find any records of them in Canada. I've searched censuses, birth records, passenger lists. Nothing!
Curious that she married Dominic using her maiden name.

Hi Margaret
This indeed is a puzzle my mum no longer with us always said her grandad (Charles) was a mountie and had a photo of him with a horse but no idea where it went. My elderly cousin who is 87 can remember this grandma (Elizabeth) who told her she came back fron Ontario on a big boat with 3 small children. I have got the 1861 and 1881, 1891 and 1901 census of Elizabeth but it is 1871 missing. My cousin who wasn,t much younger than my mum said my mum found a newspaper photo cutting of a man and my grt grandma told my mum put it away that was your grandad. When I found the 1901 cencus expecting to find lots of Barlows in Atherstone all I found was my grandad and his 2 brothers all canadian british subjects. It is also on my grandads war record that he was born in Canada. So I really don,t know where to go next.

Regards Valerie

well, of course, the suspicion is always that she did not in fact marry Charles Barlow, even though the children were given his surname.


In Canada, just as in England, I do not believe that you had to produce a marriage certificate when registering a baby's birth


We didn't have to do it when registering my daughter in the 1970s




sylvia

If she married in 1879 in England, then she very probably came back to Britain before the passenger lists that ancestry has

* UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
* England, Alien Arrivals, 1810-1811, 1826-1869




sylvia

Thanks for your replies. I guess that perhaps Elizabeth didn,t marry. Then that leaves me with who was Charles Barlow and was he Canadian or english and why did Elizabeth go out there in the first place, I guess I will never know. Is there anyway of trying to find birth certificates in Canada ? or would that be too early in the 1870,s.

I don't subscribe for Cdn records at Ancestry but maybe MM you could check?

I did an "exact search" in the 1871 census for

surname Park*
province Ontario
district Dundas

(I assume that's what "Dundess" is -- Dundas County -- and "Canada West" is the former name for Ontario.)

I know that Ancestry constantly mistranscribes BARNES as BARNER, for instance, so I wondered about this one:

Eliza Parker
abt 1851

There are no Park* or Bar* births in Dundas County up to 1880 to match the names you have (the index at Ancestry starts at 1869). I tried Walter Charles with no surname, too.

Ah, searching for Walter Charles, 1873-1877, there is this -- Ancestry's transcriptions of BMD registrations are particularly appalling, keep in mind:

Charles Walter Lardlow
Wellington

But adding mother's name Eli* to the search rules that one out. There's only one result:

Charles Walter Bell
York

There is also this one:

Walter Thompson
Wentworth
father Charles
mother Elizabeth Parks

Searches using mother's name Eliz* Park* don't find anything either.


Oh, hold on. Dundas itself, the little town, is in Wentworth County outside Hamilton.

In Wentworth County in 1871 there is

Charles Barlow
abt 1846

There is also

George Barlow
abt 1870

I have no idea whether they are together, since I can't view the record. No Elizabeth Barl* or Park* though.

No Barlow births in Wentworth County 1869-1878 to match your names.

Oh look, oh look!

CHARLES WALTER PARKS
Wentworth County
registered 1877

But ... he's not matching Elizabeth's name as mother.

Still worth a look, I think -- MM?

I just don't know where else to look, Janey, I've exhausted my supply of resources.

I think you're correct in that it's probably the town of Dundas, not the county. A shame as I live next door to the county.

As for Charles being a mountie, I don't know. I don't think we had mounties in Ontario then. Weren't they still called the North West Mounted Police and were just out west? I stand to be corrected on that.

If there's anything specific that you think of that you'd like me to look up don't hesitate, I do have Ancestry.ca.

from wikipedia:-

"The RCMP was formed in 1920 by the merger of the Royal Northwest Mounted Police (RNWMP, founded 1873) with the Dominion Police (founded 1868). The former was originally named the North-West Mounted Police (NWMP), and was given the Royal prefix by King Edward VII in 1904. Much of the present-day organization's symbolism has been inherited from its days as the NWMP, including the distinctive Red Serge uniform, paramilitary heritage, and mythos as a frontier force. The RCMP/GRC wording is specifically protected under the Trade-marks Act.[5]"

Note this sentence (wish I could highlight on GR!!):-

"Much of the present-day organization's symbolism has been inherited from its days as the NWMP, including the distinctive Red Serge uniform, paramilitary heritage, and mythos as a frontier force."


According to one on-line dictionary (and apparently based on Random House Dictionary), the origin of the word Mountie, from mounted, dates from 1885-1890




So neither the RCMP NOR the word Mountie existed when these boys were born. The NWMP had just been formed (1873)


so, was there some contact after the return to the UK??

And was the word Mountie then added to the family story after it became a word in common usage?



sylvia

I babbled too much, MM. ;)


This birth in Ontario:

CHARLES WALTER PARKS
Wentworth County
registered 1877

... actually, I think this is him in 1891:
Name: Charles W Parks
Birth: abt 1877 - location
Residence: township, Wentworth North, Ontario
-- but may as well have a look.


And these two people in the 1871 census in Wentworth County:

Charles Barlow
abt 1846
-- but I think this is the one who married Harriet and died in 1919

George Barlow
abt 1870


And maybe in 1861 (Ancestry is showing me two the same):

Name: C Barlow
Birth: 1840 - location
Residence: township, Wentworth, Canada West


You guys are right about Mounties, of course. Nobody at the time would have used that term, and the force didn't exist at all in eastern Canada. This isn't the first alleged Mountie father we've seen on the boards in recent weeks, either. ;)

?? 1881

John READ Head M Male 30 Swineford Mayo, Ireland Farmers Laborer
Elizabeth READ Wife M Female 25 Pinwall, Leicester, England Hat Trimmer
Mary Jane READ Daur Female 6 Atherstone, Warwick, England Scholar
Michael READ Son Male 5 Atherstone, Warwick, England Scholar
Domonick READ Son Male 3 Atherstone, Warwick, England
Joseph READ Son Male 1 Atherstone, Warwick, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Bingham Row
Census Place Atherstone, Warwick, England
Family History Library Film 1341730
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3058 / 15
Page Number 24

Not likely, A o' GG ... the Dominic Reed in question married in 1879 ... but undoubtedly related somehow. Just not to Charles Barlow in Canada!

Yes, JC, i've come across it before. Any photo of a man with a horse taken in Canada automatically makes him a Mountie!

The Charles Walter Parks born 1877, Wentworth had parents Charles Barrington Parks and Annette (can't make out last name Jewerson/Serverson?)

This is the 1846 Charles Barlow on the 71 census but can't access original on Ancestry.ca.

Ontario, Canada Census Index, 1871
about Charles Barlow
Name: Charles Barlow
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1846
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ontario

Residence District: Wentworth South
Residence Location: Ancaster
Ethnic Origin: English
Religion: Wesleyan Methodist
Occupation: Labourer
Division: 2
Microfilm Roll: C-9924
Page: 18
Head of Household Comment: This person is listed as a head of household.

The George Barlow born 1870 on the 71 census was son of Charles 25 and Harriet 27 and there was an older son Charles F. 3.
Harriet was born England.

As for the 1861 census C. Barlows, doesn't really tell us anything. They're both on same census page, both 21, both born Canada West. One is son of Wm., the other son of S., both of whom were born New Brunswick, brothers perhaps?

Duds, then, eh?

I wonder whether by "Canada West" they actually did mean western Canada? "Canada West" was called Ontario by 1870.

Where did the "Dundess America Canada West" in your first post come from? Canada isn't America in the common sense, i.e. the US. ;)

The 1881 says "Dundas Canada West". (The image and handwriting are lousy, and it may say Dundess, but may say Dundas.)

Oh why did,nt we think to ask all these questions when my mum was alive . Going back to the photo of the horse the man (grt grandad) was wearing a uniform if that helps at all. Also I do think you are right that perhaps she didn,t marry because I have found newspaper article ( when they were back in England) where my grandad and his brothers had a go at a lady because she had called them american bastards whereas in those days it meant what it said. In the 1891 british census my grandad was down as Walter Chet.
1881 census
Dominick Reed head male 28 Ireland
Elizabeth Reed wife 29 Hartshill Warwick England
Charles Reed son 10 Dundess Canada
William Reed son 8 Dundess Canada
Walter Reed son 5 Dundess Canada
Dwelling Old House Yard
Atherstone Warwick England and that is correct as I say they then go back to Barlow on the 1891 census and the Reed changes to Reice. Also on the 1891 census it states Canada West United States.

Can you tell us anything about the uniform that gt. grandad was wearing? Any insignia that you can see?

what colour does it seem to be?

I know it will be b&w ................. but you should be able to tell the following:-

khakish, different coloured jacket and trousers, stripes on trousers or anywhere else

what does the jacket look like ............. high necked, collar and lapels, breast pockets, etc

Is there a belt, or anything crossing the chest

type of hat .... pillbox, pith helmet, stetson, peaked


any gun or rifle



sylvia

I have just been in touch with my brother who lives away and I said what do you know about grt grandad and he said the same as me he remembered the photograph was a mountie (as you say it was prob what was said then) he was on a horse and wore a tunic and a big brimmed rounded hat not a cowboy hat more domed he said the tunic was red I can,t remember that if it was a coloured photo or not I know they used to paint photos then as I have just been looking at some alas I didn,t find the one I was looking for. Thanking you, Regards Valerie

probably N W M P then, they wore the red tunics

google Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Look through the Wikipedia entry


there are some photos on there showing the uniform of the N W M P


or google North West Mounted Police and see what's on the entry for them.



also google Mountie if you want



sylvia