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Can someone help me break through 'the wall'

According to documents I already have, my gt-grandfather was William James Newton, born either 1853 (death certificate) or 1858 (census return) in Iver, Bucks, died 1920; first wife Elizabeth Conroy, second wife Alice Warren. I can't find any trace of him in Births or Marriages. I know wife no1 came from Ireland and son No1 was born in Ireland. No living relative has any memory of him as he died before they were born.
I'm beginning to wonder:-
a) was he actually born in Ireland (if he was why lie about it in the census)
b) was he born under another name and later 'adopted'/renamed

Anyone have any ideas how I can find out

Can you post a bit of census info?

I'm not seeing him straight off in 1891 or 1901 -- not sure which wife to be looking for, don't have son's or other children's names, so hard to identify him.


Is this them in 1891?

Name: William Newton
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Sheering, Buckinghamshire, England
Occupation: Publican

Civil Parish: St Andrew
Town: Hertford
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Registration district: Hertford

William Newton 32
Elizabeth Newton 31 - born Ireland
James Newton 9 - born Ireland
William Newton 5 - born Bishops Stortford, Hertfordshire
Arthur Newton 3 - " "
John Wilkinson 66 - lodger, born Herts
Charles Clayton 33 - " "
Joseph Devonshire 78 - " "

1901


Name: William Lewton
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Alice
Where born: Iver, Buckinghamshire, England

Name: Alice Lewton
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Where born: Hertford, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Croydon

William Lewton 43
Alice Lewton 31
William Lewton 14
Arthur Lewton 13
Walter Lewton 9
Fredk Lewton 7
Albert Lewton 4
George Lewton 2
Frank Lewton 4 months


You want to go correct that at Ancestry. You never know, a long-lost distant cousin who knows something might find you that way. Some of mine have!

Do you know which of the children after Arthur were Alice's? To figure out when the marriage would have happened, if there was one.


Alice Warren births in Hertfordshire 1865-1875:

Births Mar 1871
WARREN Alice Edmonton 3a 206
WARREN Alice Emma Royston 3a 313
WARREN Alice Maud B. Stortford 3a 278

Births Mar 1872
WARREN Alice H. Hempstead 3a 417

Births Dec 1872
Warren Alice Jane St. Albans 3a 372

Births Mar 1875
Warren Alice Luton 3b 417


She may have been younger than reported in 1901. No births for Hertford district.

If she and William married/partnered later rather than sooner after 1891, she could have been already/previously married.

Could be Elizabeth's death -- all of this being what you probably know already.

Deaths Dec 1895
Newton Elizabeth 36 Hertford 3a 290

Aargh.

1901

Name: Fredk Lewton
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Alice
>> Where born: Hertford, Hertfordshire, England

Elizabeth dies 1895.

Name: Albert Lewton
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Alice
>> Where born: Stepney, London, England

Just as I paid attention to the info in the 1901, EtR. ;)

First child of that union born in Stepney.

That looks like it will be the marriage.

Oh, and then I failed to pay attention to the date of the marriage.

But if this is William's death:

Deaths Mar 1920
NEWTON William J 66 Croydon 2a 353

then it matches.

I'd probably go with the age/dob he reported himself in censuses rather than his reported age at death, at least tentatively.

the census details shown are the correct ones. I do not have marriage certificates - I suspect the first marriage was in Ireland, and I can't find any trace of the second one.

I've tried the IGI for the 1881 census and got no trace. The only time he crops up is in 1891 and 1901. I have the 1st wifes death certificate and he is shown as James Newton?

William and Alice 'got together' between 19/12/1895 (death of 1st wife) and 19/04/1897 (birth of Albert - their 1st child).

As far as I can tell 2nd wife was Alice Maud Warren born 1871 B.Stortford

She could be that Alice -- but given the late date of the marriage, if that's the one (the spouse hasn't been transcribed yet, you'd have to check the matching Warren on the original image), it may be that she was already married when she and William partnered and her husband didn't die until later, and Warren was her married surname.

Warren is given as her birth surname on children's birth certs though?

Checked the image.

Warren, Alice + Newton is the corresponding entry. Looks like that's them!

I've just looked at the 1917 marriage - it looks very promising; I will chase this one up after crimbo

Anyone got any ideas on Williams birth ?

That Alice Maud Warren's household in 1891 in Bishop Stortford:

George C Warren 47
Sarah Warren 43
Alice M Warren 20
Beatrice E Warren 18
Frederick C Warren 16
Edith B Warren 13
Herbert A Warren 11
William A Warren 7
Stanley E Warren 5


Father George, your Alice's second child with William was George. The 1917 marriage certificate will confirm, if that's her.

Re William's birth - may as well wait until you have the marriage cert.

It will give his father's name and occupation, and also what William reported his own age as again.

Post it here when you get it and we'll all be able to take another kick at it with that info.

btw, in 1881 he would certainly have been in Ireland -- in 1891:

Elizabeth Newton 31 - born Ireland
James Newton 9 - born Ireland

So son James was born 1881-2 in Ireland, and with Elizabeth born there it certainly looks as if they were married there.

Do you have her surname from a later child's birth cert?

I wonder whether William was in the military and that was why he was in Ireland?

Or he could have been born there, true, but it does seem odd that he would report born in Buckinghamshire so consistently then.

On that theory --

Name: William J Newton
Age: 19
>> Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Patient
Where born: Londwater, Buckinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Alverstoke
Ecclesiastical parish: Alverstoke
Town: Haslar
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration district: Alverstoke

>> ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Naval Hospital

Age is consistent with reported age at death.

Births Mar 1853
NEWTON James Wycombe 3a 392


He could have been James William who went by his middle name, particularly if his father was James.

This is consistent with the use of a middle initial e.g. in censuses -- the middle initial often stands for the first given name, where the person went by the middle name, in my experience.

According to the birth cetificates I have Williams first wife Elizabeth's maiden name was Conroy. By my reckoning her death certificate age and the time of year she died (late December) means she was born in 1859.

I've just searched http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com and the only record for 1859 relates to Elizabeth Conry. The closest Elizabeth Conroy are in 1858 & 1860. All from different counties! Not knowing where in Ireland she comes from is going to hamper me somewhat I think !!!

XmasEvieBeavie

In either 1891 or 1901 he gives his place of birth as Iver, which is about 12 miles Wycombe as the crow flies I believe.

Can I ask where you got the military hospital information?

The wycombe birth register entry and the person in the military hospital may well be one and the same because Loudwater is not very far from Wycmbe

Another interesting follow up - I've just got to convince the wife that the expense is worth it!!!