Find Ancestors

This is STRICTLY for someone at a loose end looking to waste some time hunting for the unfindable! Any luck with anything will of course result in outpourings of gratitude and future references to your name(s) being preceded by obsequious adjectives. ;)


As some will recall, I found a descendant a few months ago of

HENRY ROSSITER JOHN MONRO COKE 1879
aka ROSSITER MONRO McCOCK
son of
Ada Lennox Monck Hill 1854 aka Ada Lennox Monck
(sister of my infamous great-grandfather Ernest Augustus Hill/Monck, she being known to me only from research)
who married 1875
Charles Henry Coke 1856 aka Charles Henry MacCock/McCock

The person I found (through a relation of her husband here at GR who has her in his tree) is the granddaughter of Rossiter (who did, as I suspected, settle in South Africa). She told me a couple of family stories.

For instance, Rossiter said his father was Vivian Charles Frederick Coke aka McCock (which is the name Rossiter gave his first son). It makes one want to murder them, it does. I have the Scottish Cock - Coke in Wales tree going back generations and I know who Charles was. Charles first changed his name after a bankruptcy. Now it seems that once may not have been enough. Oh, and on his daughter's 1897 death certificate he called Charles Lennox McCock (possibly by someone who knew nothing -- the informant was an Amy Parkinson, allegedly and impossibly his daughter's grandmother) ...

Anyhow, Rossiter had two sisters.
The first died at 16 in 1897 (birth not reg). The second was:

JESSIE FRANCES ADA MONRO COKE aka McCOCK, birth 1881 reg 1882
-- last seen 1901 census in London, a "lady help", and on Rossiter's Imperial Yeomanry enlistment forms for the Anglo-Boer war as next of kin

Rossiter's granddaughter tells me that Jessie was born in 1890 (no; Dec 1881) and married twice:
- ERNEST NICHOLAS, whom she divorced
- FREDERICK HUNTER, with whom she emigrated to the US
She then died in childbirth in the US in 1929 - I think not, since she would have been pushing 50. But who knows?

In any event, those family stories are obviously all messed up, but they do contain grains of truth, so I went looking for Jessie's marriages and found nothing remotely like. Some months later, I've decided to try again.

No luck. Not in marriages, not in the 1911. Nothing remotely like.

(The 1911 does have, searching for surname Ni*, a Jessie Nicass married to Arthur with son John Ernest. After much bother, I found that the surname is Nieass - Ni[e_]ss for the son's birth reg, of course - and she was Jessie Wilson.)

So. I did find this a long time ago:

Name: MISS Mc COCK
Birth: (age 21)
Departure: Liverpool, July 18, 1901
Arrival: Portland, Maine

She's in a group of "Miss"s with the odd Mrs, for all of whom it says "through to Canada". I have found no trace of such a person in Canada ever (or of anyone with my Jessie's details). I figured, with the Hill/Monck luck, she died of tuberculosis before getting to the border. The name does seem to read McCock, but could be McCork.

So - Were both her marriages (if such there were) actually in the US maybe?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION 1:

JESSIE - possible initials F and/or A and/or M - McCOCK
or NICHOLAS husband Ernest
or HUNTER husband Frederick
- born c1882 (or later) in England (true, Cheshire) or Scotland (Jessie on the 1901 believed she was born in Scotland) or Canada (per the 1891)

>> in the US Census 1910, 20 or 30? In passenger records?

I can't see anything searching for free at FMP or Ancestry US. Except I wonder about this one in 1920:

Jessie Nichols
Ernest H
city, Los Angeles, California
born abt 1891
children Howard c1912, Myron c1917

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION 2:

I have just also found this one:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: CLAIRE MC COCK
Birth: year - location
Departure: location
Arrival: date - New York, New York

In 1891 in England, Charles Henry McCock was supposedly married to CLARE, supposedly born in Canada. All searches for her, before and after and everywhere, have been fruitless.

I don't see that record at FMP so it may be pre-1890, or it may just be a strange transcription at one place or the other.

>> Can anyone tell me what's on the record?


Hey, there might even be a {{hug}} in it. ... But don't count on that. ;)

Name: Claire Mc Cock
Arrival Date: 10 Sep 1948
Birth Year: abt 1927
Birth Location: California
Birth Location Other: Richmond
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Marine Tiger

You can keep the hug..

Edit..
FMP.

Name: Claire MCCOOK
Date of departure: 1 September 1948
Port of departure: Southampton
Passenger destination port: New York, USA
Passenger destination: New York, USA

I know better than to hug you. You're saving 'em for the workie guys digging up your lawn, anyhow, right? ;)

One down. "My" Clare was allegedly born c1865, but in any event would not have passed for 21 in 1948! Nor would she have had an eponymous daughter in 1927 ... although heck, maybe elderly childbearing ran in the family ... not that she was family ...

Tas! And notice how I didn't just come begging to you this time. Thought I'd spread the fun around. ;)


edit - ah yes, another McCook masquerading. There are numerous. If you ask Google for McCock, it gives you McCook. On the other hand, if you get stroppy with it and demand McCock, you don't want to know what you get.

And hey -- the hugs are for somebody who finds me somebody who is somebody, not somebody who finds me somebody who isn't anybody!

Name: Ernest H Nichols
Home in 1920: Los Angeles Assembly District 63, Los Angeles, California
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Birthplace: Iowa
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
[Head]
Spouse's name: Jessie
Father's Birth Place: Canada
Mother's Name: Emely
Mother's Birth Place: Iowa
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Own
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Ernest H Nichols 32
Jessie Nichols 29
Howard Nichols 8
Myron Nichols 3
[3 6/12]
Emely Nichols 58

Name: Jessie Nichols
Home in 1920: Los Angeles Assembly District 63, Los Angeles, California
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Birthplace: Iowa
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's name: Ernest H
Father's Birth Place: Wisconsin
Mother's Birth Place: Idaho
Marital Status: Married
Race: White

Oh, well, word that rhymes and starts with H -- it could be her just lying about her birthplace. *That* certainly ran in the family.

But no, not likely. Another one down ...

Just earning some favours to call in sometime Janey..:))

He he

Just another thread I'm updating for myself and posterity as I play at pilot.familysearch ...

Name: Violet Louie Lennox Coke
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Christening Date: 24 Dec 1880
Christening Place: Barrow, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Charles Henry Coke
Mother's Name: Ada Lennox
Principal's Residence: Barrow, Cheshire, England
Collection: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900

Name: Violet Louise Lennox Coke
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Christening Date: 24 Dec 1880
Christening Place: Barrow, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Charles Henry Coke
Mother's Name: Ada Lennox
Principal's Residence: , Barrow, Cheshire, England
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000


Died as Violet Louie Lennox McCock.

Somehow, the birth never made it into the GRO index ...

Identical records appear for the christening of Jessie Frances Ada Monro Coke, 1 March 1882, Barrow.


Still no trace of Jessie marrying.

"Hey, there might even be a {{hug}} in it. ... But don't count on that. ;)"

I nearly choked on my biscuit. Never thought I'd see the day lol

Good luck with this :)

SRS - wherever did you dredge this up from? Are you *spying* on me?? ;)

You've seen the parent thread I trust ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=976217

Slowly but surely ......


Anyhow, for anybody in need of something to do, I'm still looking for:


JESSIE FRANCES ADA MONRO COKE aka McCOCK, birth 1881 reg 1882
-- last seen 1901 census in London, a "lady help", and on her brother Rossiter McCock's Imperial Yeomanry enlistment forms for the Anglo-Boer war as next of kin

Rossiter's granddaughter tells me that Jessie was born in 1890 (she was really born in Dec 1881, registered next quarter) and married twice:
- ERNEST NICHOLAS, whom she divorced
- FREDERICK HUNTER, with whom she emigrated to the US
and then died in childbirth in the US in 1929 - I think not, since she would have been pushing 50. But who knows?


No record I can find of anything sounding like any of that.

Surely somebody wants to show me up by finding her. ;)


... Ha, I'll show myself up.

Name: Jessie M Turner
Year of Registration: 1914
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Nicholas
District: Norwich
County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 229

Spouse: William W Nicholas
(fixed,had the wrong spouse at first - a Frederick Nichols on the same page, argh)

A grain of truth in the tale told maybe -- Jessie Frances Ada Monro Coke/McCock (who would be caling herself Jessie Monro [surname], as her brother Henry John Rossiter Monro Coke/McCock called himself Rossiter Monro McCock) married Turner *first* and then Nicholas??

1881

Charles Henry COKE Head M Male 29 Neeth, Glamorgan, Wales Gentn Farmer 50 Acres
Ada Lennox COKE Wife M Female 24 Liskeard, Cornwall, England Wife Of Farmer
H. R. John COKE Son Male 2 Ascot, Berkshire, England
Voilet L. COKE Daughter Female 5 m Barrow, Cheshire, England
Mary U. WRAGGE Visitor U Female 24 At Sea
Sarah CROUK Servant U Female 40 Sydenham, Kent, England Nurse (Dom)
Margret WILLIAMS Servant U Female 15 Cheshire, England Nurse (Dom)
Sarah Ellen BALL Servant U Female 24 Brnham, Devon, England Cook
Harriet HELLIOT Servant U Female 17 Tarvin, Cheshire, England Housemaid
Thomas DALE Servant U Male 18 Wales Groom
A.H. SMITH Servant U Male 17 Liverpool Groom
John LEE Servant U Male 19 Bagston Groom
Patrick DUFFY Servant U Male 27 Ireland Groom
Harry CHRISTIE Servant U Male 16 London, London, Middlesex, England Servant


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Barrow, Cheshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341851
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3553 / 36
Page Number 32

AoGG, don't you start giving me known knowns, I have Tracey and AuntyS to do that for me. ;)

I know *everything* about these Coke people from the 1600s forward to the present date -- except for this Jessie o' mine after 1901!


But okay, that's the census showing the family except for Jessie, in 1881.

After that, in 1891, they are

Charles Henry Mac Cock, born Scotland
Clare Mac Cock, "wife", born Canada c1865
Henry Mac Cock (Henry Rossiter John Monro Coke / Rossiter M McCock), born Canada
Violet Mac Cock, born Canada
Jessie Mac Cock, born Canada

Utter nonsense undoubtedly because of problems stemming from Charles's bankruptcy 1883.

I have never found a death for Ada Lennox Monck Hill/Monck Code (McCock?).

Couldn't be mistranscribed as McCook or McCork could she?

SJ 46 NE BARROW C P THE VILLAGE
(East Side)
Great Barrow

4/11 L-shaped farmbuilding
forming courtyard at
Barrow Hall.

1/6/1967

GV II

L-shaped farmbuilding: early-mid C18 with some later work. Partly
stone ground storey, partly washed orange brick. Welsh slate roof.
North front of south range of 2 storeys and 14 bays. Dentil cornice.
Board floors under flat stone and segmental brick heads and 2 small
pane iron casements below. Above are small windows, square pitch
holes and X-shaped ventilation patterns.

West front of east range also has stone ground storey. 2-storey, 8
bay front. Brick dentil cornice. 4 board doors under flat stone
lintels and 4 windows with small pane glazing partly surviving. Above
are 2 square pitch holes and a line of X-shaped ventilation patterns.

Several large C20 openings have been introduced in the rear of these
ranges.

The 3-bay C19 and C20 brick building added to the north end of the
east range is not included in the item.


Listing NGR: SJ4716868478

Janey - I deleted my post - Renes

Ha ha, Irene, but you put another one, so this bilge will keep showing up in your My Threads anyway. ;) (It's okay, you can delete that one too if you like!)

Cynthia - she could have been mistranscribed as just about anything ... but more likely just lied. ;)

AoGG , you'll be the death of me. Conniptions, I'll have. Do you think that's where they lived? There's no actual "address" on the 1881 census.

Interestingly, I did find info about where they were living in 1891 (believe it or not, in Coombe Monckton, Somerset). Found a website about the town, and posted a question about the house, and the person who lives there now replied and sent me photos! The website has been taken down now, unfortunately ...

But you never give your links. :(

I googled "SJ 46 NE BARROW C P THE VILLAGE" and there are a bunch of results. Yours is this one:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-55457-l-shaped-farmbuilding-forming-courtyard-a

I think I'll browse them. They're living right by a Rev in 1881 so I'll check out the old rectory page as well and see whether I can get my bearings.

In any event ... they would have left there in 1883 when Charles was bankrupted. I had always joked about how the new name and fake birthplaces in 1891 probably had to do with the ponies, given all the grooms in his employ in 1881, and it seems I was right.

edit - I think the Cokes were more likely at Barrow Hall, the main building of that complex.

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-55455-barrow-hall-barrow

well with all those servants for such a small family thought it would be a semi stately home and wondered if that was it!!

and, I know how much you love my postings!!!! and to think you have Welsh blood in you - we could be related you know!!

I truthfully like reading the research threads - I am possible sad - but I find them interesting - I deleted not to remove from my threads - but to not mar the proper research work being undertaken

Renes

Proper research work on these people -- ha -- wild theories that drove my "proper researcher" Monck mentor in England mad for a year -- until he was the one that proved the big one correct (that my Monck was born Hill) -- by finding the baptism records of "Ada Lennox Monck Hill" and her brother Ernest Augustus Hill (my gr-grf Ernest Augustus Monck) at a records office in Cornwall! He about fell over. As he said at the time: I did it all wrong, and got it right. ;)

AoGG, I think the one you cited was probably the stables at the time. Farm building, belonging to the Hall across the courtyard (with 50 acres, per the census) -- and so it's very likely that the Hall they belonged to was where they did live, actually. So you did find what I never had!

With most of the servants being grooms, that was what suggested to me that Charles wasn't just a hobbyist when it came to horses, and he changed his surname not out of Scottish pride, but for other reasons. Odd that he didn't "Welsh" on his debts! -- run across the border to Wales to defeat his creditors -- him being born there and all. Maybe he had in between 1883 and 1891, and then came back with the new name.

He'd married an actress, after all! That's what Ada was at age 16, in 1871, at the Adelphi, and they married in 1875. I don't know whether they met by chance and it was their meeting that got her father into the mining trade -- i.e. Charles was a rich layabout who found himself a wife at the stage door, much to her father's good luck -- or Ada's father was already dealing in mining investments and that's how they met (Charles's uncle controlled the copper trade in his part of Wales).

But actually, Charles is just a collateral in-law to me: husband of my gr-grfather's sister. And his lot did go to Wales from Scotland, where they were brewers and weavers named Cock, only shortly before 1800. So they weren't even Welsh, and you may *not* be my cousin!


I'm like you Irene of course -- that's why I hang out here. Two saddos, and counting. ;)

Here ya go, people who unfortunately have this in Their Threads. ;)

Interesting record in Cdn passenger lists -- on free offer at Ancestry this weekend. The image does indeed seem to say this, but no more, except that his occupation is "Gent" and he is single, and he seems to be listed with a Mrs and Mr C Clift, "Lady" and "Gent".

Name: Mr C McCock
Gender: Male
Date of Arrival: 28 Dec 1885
Vessel: Polynesian
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia and Portland, Maine
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4534

Were the Clifts on honeymoon?

Marriages Jun 1885 ?
BAGOT Josceline Fitz Roy St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 703
> CLIFT Charles St Geo H Sq. 1a 703
LESLIE Theodosia St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 703
RUSH Kate St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 703

Perhaps Charles really did go to Canada between 85 and 91, and bring back that new wife. The final London Gazette entry for him is in 1884, when a dividend of 20s in the pound was declared in his bankruptcy, giving his last address as Hammersmith.

Rossiter's descendant has a story of the children being reared by a Miss Fox in Yorkshire. This suggests that Ada died after the third child was born in Cheshire (no death ever found); Charles's brother lived in Harrogate. And it could have been some time during the period 1881-1891 (Rossiter was born 1879) ... or after ... . But Violet died in Rugby in 1896, the informant being that "grandmother" Amy Parkinson, with father stated as Charles Lennox McCock, a grazier; and Rugby was where Rossiter, a grocer, signed up with the Imperial Yeomanry for the Anglo-Boer War.