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This is an update of my previous post below with a bit more info.
I seem to have hit a major brick wall! I’m trying to find either:
(i): the death of John Matthews b.c1820 in Churston Ferrers, Devon.
He is in all the censuses until 1881 where he and his wife Rosetta disappear. Rosetta resurfaces in 1891 as a visitor at 24 Silchester Road, Kensington and as a widow.
(ii): John and/or Rosetta Matthews in the 1881 census. Intriguingly, in the 1881 census there is an entry against 17 Silchester Terrace, Kensington which notes “left gone to Devon”. Although I’ve trawled through several places where I thought they might be, as yet there’s no trace of them.
I’ve found as many marriage records for their children as I can, and even up to the latest one on 29 Sep 1881 it doesn’t specifically state that he was deceased - although obviously he may have been but the info wasn't volunteered to the registrar.
I’ve also searched on both Ancestry and Findmypast using as many permutations of their names as I can think of, but to no avail.
So far I’ve obtained the death records of 4 wrong John Matthews and it’s now getting a tad expensive!
The John Matthews death certificates I have so far are:
John Matthews – 56 – French Polisher – 07/07/1875
John Matthews – 60 – Bricklayer – 04/06/1880
John Matthews – 65 – Pantomimist – 25/07/1885
John Matthews – 69 – Retired Mathematical Instrument Maker – 03/07/1888
If any of these relate to members of your family and you would like the certificate, send me an email with your address and I’ll send it to you when I’m next in the UK (at the end of May 2009):
Or have you obtained an incorrect certificate? My John Matthews was a Gardener and probably living in Kensington; but obviously he could have died anywhere.
If anyone has or knows of any other John Matthews deaths between 1871 and 1891 that I can cross off my list to try and narrow it down a bit, please let me know
And lastly - can anyone suggest what to try next?
Cheers,
Phil Curtis
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suppose you have these, I know how you feel I now have 5 wrong certs!
Name: John Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Year of Registration: 1886
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 61
District: South Molton
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 279 (click to see others on page)
Name: John Matthews
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Year of Registration: 1887
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 67
District: Penzance
County: Cornwall
Volume: 5c
Page: 172 (click to see others on page)
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These are all the deaths for cornwall between 1881 - 1891
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Deaths Mar 1881 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 40 Penzance 5c 236
MATTHEWS John 71 Penzance 5c 228
MATTHEWS John Edwin 5 Tavistock 5b 270
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Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
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Matthews John 63 Truro 5c 110
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Deaths Sep 1881 (>99%)
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Matthews John 0 Penzance 5c 158
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Deaths Dec 1881 (>99%)
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Matthews John 0 Helston 5c 125
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Deaths Jun 1882 (>99%)
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Matthews John Ellis 0 Penzance 5c 205
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Deaths Mar 1883 (99%)
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MATTHEWS John 0 Helston 5c 145
MATTHEWS John Ewart 0 Redruth 5c 171
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Deaths Jun 1883 (>99%)
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Matthews John Henry 0 Penzance 5c 223
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Deaths Dec 1883 (97%)
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MATTHEWS John Joseph 24 Falmouth 5c 106
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Deaths Mar 1884 (>99%)
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Matthews John 48 Tavistock 5b 254
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Deaths Jun 1884 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 84 Penzance 5c 212
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Deaths Dec 1884 (>99%)
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Matthews John 38 Camelford 5c 13
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Deaths Jun 1885 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 71 Penzance 5c 192
MATTHEWS John 60 Penzance 5c 204
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Deaths Dec 1885 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 68 Penzance 5c 188
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Deaths Dec 1886 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 75 Penzance 5c 196
MATTHEWS John 40 Redruth 5c 159
MATTHEWS John 1 Redruth 5c 167
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Deaths Mar 1887 (>99%)
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Matthews John 74 Penzance 5c 234
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Deaths Sep 1887 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 91 Falmouth 5c 109
MATTHEWS John 39 Penzance 5c 169
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Deaths Dec 1887 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 67 Penzance 5c 172
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Deaths Dec 1888 (>99%)
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Matthews John Henry 0 Penzance 5c 169
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Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
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Matthews John 65 Launceston 5c 19
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Deaths Dec 1889 (>99%)
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Matthews John 71 Penzance 5c 178
Matthews John 79 Penzance 5c 193
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Deaths Mar 1890 (>99%)
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Matthews John 0 Bodmin 5c 57
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Deaths Mar 1891 (>99%)
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Matthews John Tregear 43 Penzance 5c 248
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Deaths Dec 1891 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS John 1 Penzance 5c 218
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Hi,
Thanks for your replies...
I have a list of 48 John Matthews' who died between 1871 and 1891. Two of them have middle names which rules them out, and with the four certificates I already have means he should be one of the remaining 42.
He was certainly alive at the time of the 1871 census, but he was gone by the time of the 1891 census, and not being able to find him or Rosetta in 1881 is what is really annoying - I have a 20-year span when he could have died and don't particularly want to spend up to £294 on certificates just to find him!
Oh well, onwards and upwards...
Phil
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With helpful posts from members of the WDYTYA forum, I've come to the conclusion it's this man:
MATTHEWS, JOHN aged 58 GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 119. No will.
There is a plausible 1881 census (03 April) entry for a John Matthews, occupation gardener, together with a son named Robert recorded as born in Torquay, in London. This death record almost certainly relates to the person in the census even though his age is a couple of years out.
From the death cert: Twenty eighth June 1881 5 Thomas Row | John Matthews | Male | 58 years | Gardener | Pneumonia Nephritis Certified by William Causton M.R.C.S. | X The mark of Harriet Panting Present at the death 2 Henrietta Place Hammersmith | Thirtieth June 1881 | W F Halsey Registrar.
Why Harriet Panting was present at John's death is unknown. As far as I know at the moment, there is no connection between the two families. There must have been something though, there was a good 20 mins walk between the two places.
Where Thomas Row used to be is about where the disabled car parking area for the London Hammersmith Premier Inn is.
Henrietta Place, where the Pantings lived, was roughly where the A4 now passes Hammersmith Town Hall.
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It may have been a different layout in 1881 possibly with little allly ways to cut though...….
perhaps she took in washing//cleaned//or even cooked lots did to bolster the family income and that's how she was down as present at death,,,,,,,even though Harriet may have discovered him already dead.?
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Kay????:
True enough I guess, but the burning question is - where was his wife Rosetta? Still not found in the 1881 census...
Another of life's little mysteries that make this family history malarkey so interesting!
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Have you looked for her as Rosa,?Rose.
where is Rosetta in 1871 ?
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Marriages broke up then at least as often as these days.
She might be living anywhere.
OR she might be in the workhouse hospital or prison.
Have you looked using her initials only?
Or as Kay suggested, just ask for Ros* where * is a wild card that stands for 1 or more letters.
Also try Mat*hews
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All a bit strange that 1891, Rosetta, 24, Silchester Road...
Chris :)
Marriages Jun 1873 (>99%)
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JUKES Robert Kensington 1a 265
MATTHEWS Rosetta Kensington 1a 265
RAYNER Elizabeth Kensington 1a 265
Standingford William Kensington 1a 265
Birth
JUKES, ELLEN MATTHEWS
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 73
1891
Robert Jukes Head Married Male 44 1847 Cab Proprietor Dorset, England
Elizabeth Jukes Wife Married Female 25 1866 - Gloucestershire, England
William Jukes Son - Male 16 1875 - London, Middlesex, England
Ellen Jukes Daughter - Female 13 1878 - London, Middlesex, England
Minnie Jukes Daughter - Female 11 1880 - London, Middlesex, England
Lily Jukes Daughter - Female 9 1882 - London, Middlesex, England
Joker Jukes Son - Male 8 1883 - London, Middlesex, England
Frederick Jukes Son - Male 6 1885 - London, Middlesex, England
Harry Jukes Son - Male 4 1887 - London, Middlesex, England
Rosella Matthew Visitor Widow Female 70 1821 - Devon, England
24, Silchester Road, Kensington, London & Middlesex,
(2nd marriage for Robert 1890 December. Rosetta Death 1890 Jun qtr)
(Rosetta not with above 1881)
Edits (according to 1873 Marriage image, was Rosetta Matthews, Full Age, Spinster, Father, John Matthews, occ. Gardener, a witness, Rosata Matthews)
(from WDYTYA query, you seem to say below is Son of Robert? (Born 30th Nov. 1866)
Birth
MATTHEWS, ROBERT LOWDEN
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in PLYMPTON ST MARY UNION Volume 05B Page 236
(your Marriage)
Marriages Jun 1844 (>99%)
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Martin Rosetta Churchward Totnes 9 551
MATTHEWS John Totnes 9 551
How many children did they have?, does below relate?, covers Churston Ferrers Reg. District)
Birth
MATTHEWS, ROBERT HEDLEY MARTIN
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in TOTNES Volume 05B Page 159
Birth
MATTHEWS, ROSETTA CHURCHWARD MARTIN
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in TOTNES Volume 09 Page 489
FMP has Devon Baptisms, Churston Ferreres 1868, Robert Matthews, on image says 30th Nov. 66. Abode, Torquay.
(perhaps below then, covers Torquay, if this is the Cert. you have?)
MATTHEWS, ROBERT MARTIN
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in NEWTON ABBOT Volume 05B Page 156
(your 1881 reference)
1881
John Mathews Head Married Male 48 1833 Gardener
Robert Mathews Son Single Male 13 1868 Errand Boy Torquay, Devon, England
5, Thomas Place, Hammersmith, Fulham, London & Middlesex
As you say, Rosetta missing...and not with Harriet below, informant on Death Cert. of John 1881, reason for her being there, not known!.
1881
Thomas Panting Head Married Male 38 1843 Basket Maker Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Harriet Panting Wife Married Female 38 1843 - Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Alfred Panting Son Single Male 16 1865 Basket Maker Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
George Panting Son Single Male 14 1867 - Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Harriet Panting Daughter Single Female 9 1872 Scholar Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Thomas Panting Son Single Male 3 1878 - Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Eliza Panting Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
2, Henrietta Place, Hammersmith, Fulham, London & Middlesex,
Deaths Dec 1891 (>99%)
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MATTHEWS Rosetta Churchward 69 Kensington 1a 97
Deaths Jun 1881 (>99%)
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Matthews John 58 Fulham 1a 119
(if Burials were below, you would need to contact)
https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/births-deaths-and-marriages/deaths/cemeteries-and-burials
(as you say not on Deceased Online, or jumping out on Ancestry, London, if the Registers are complete there!)
(also Burial for Rosetta Jukes 1890)
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Census 1881.can only find this.
View
View blank form
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:
Rosetta Matthews
Age:
41
Estimated birth year:
abt 1840
Relationship to Head:
Sister
Gender:
Female
Where born:
Newport, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish:
St Mary
County/Island:
Middlesex
Country:
England
Street address:
High St London Road
Marital status:
Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation:
In Charge Of Brothers House
Registration district:
Kingston
ED, institution, or vessel:
1
Neighbors:
View others on page
Piece:
841
Folio:
11
Page Number:
15.
it may help if you put some other details as your information is a little muddy.
whats their childrens names,born? when did John &Rosetta marry?
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SylviaInCanada: I once spent a whole day searching for Rosetta every which way I could think of; with and without wild cards, expanding the age range, etc, you name it, I tried it! In the end though, I just had to accept that - as with several others in my tree, she just wasn't there.
The important thing was, that I found John's whereabouts and death. Which brings me on to my next problem, finding out where he's buried - but that's for another day....
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