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Hi there
I am desperately trying to find the marriage of Eliza Manning and a Joseph owen Fountain
I have birth certs for their children but am unable to find the marriage
I know that Eliza was born 1845c in Norfolk/Suffolk area

regards
Tina

is it possible they forgot to marry ?

yes I had considered that one too

bear with me on this one -


1861 England Census
Name: Eliza Manning
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Female
Where born: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Hackney Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 188
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Manning 42
Eliza Manning 21
John Manning 10




Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 253; Folio: 117; Page: 36; GSU roll: 542600.





1851 England Census
Name: Eliza Heldman
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: D;w
Gender: Female
Where born: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Hackney Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
James Manning 42
Maria Manning 37
Eliza Heldman 12
John Manning 3 Mo




Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1539; Folio: 715; Page: 24; GSU roll: 174769.




Births Sep 1839 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Holdman Eliza Weeds Gt. Yarmouth 13 331




Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*******Holdman Eliza Weeds Bethnal Gn 1c 581
Savage Benjamin Bethnal Gn 1c 581
Thornton Alfred Bethnal Gn 1c 581
TYLER Elizabeth Eliza Bethnal Gn 1c 581



Do you think its the same Eliza ?


Perhaps she could not marry Joseph Fountain as she was already married, or married him with her married surname ??



NOTE - I haven't yet looked for this Eliza on any census.

says he's married, but no wife with him -


1871 England Census
Name: Benjamin Savage
Age: 33
Estimated birth year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Buysenin
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 107
Household Members: Name Age
Buysenin Savage 57
Elizabeth Savage 57
Benjamin Savage 33




Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 494; Folio: 42; Page: 16; GSU roll: 823376.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Benjamin Savage
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Spouse Name: Eliza Woods Holdman
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 Sep 1863
Parish: St Andrew, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Benjamin Savage
Spouse Father Name: James Holdman



Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Andrew, Bethnal Green, Register of marriages, P72/AND, Item 014

will look in again tomorrow

Hi Choccy

many thanks for this info

BTW


that 1851 Census??


1851

James Manning 42
Maria Manning 37
Eliza Heldman 12 daughter to wife
John Manning 3 Mo



so James Manning must have married Maria Heldman




I have been looking for an Eliza Savage after 1863, and have not succeeded in finding one.




sylvia

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: James Manning
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Spouse Name: Maria Holdman
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Oct 1848
Parish: St John, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: John Manning
Spouse Father Name: John Buttle


from image:-

John

Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Coal Whipper (same occupation as on the 1851 Census)
Address:- 21 Hope Street

Father:- John Manning, farmer


Maria


Of Full Age
Widow
no occupation shown
Address:- 21 Hope Street

Father:- John Buttle, Waterman



Witnesses:- Francis Martha Burgoyone (I think!!!) and P or M Dixon



sylvia

Maria took some time to marry Mr Holdman!!!



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Maria Buttle
Spouse Name: James Holdman
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 6 Jan 1838
Parish: St James, Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington

from image:-

Banns published:- 23 Dec 1838, 30 Dec 1838, 6 Jan 1839





London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Maria Buttle
Spouse Name: James Holdman
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Dec 1839
Parish: St James, Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington


from image:-



nothing!


Their names show under 23 Dec 1838, but nothing to say whether banns called or a marriage

Have never seen one quite like this before!




sylvia

Deaths Jun 1845 (>99%)

HOLDMAN James Bethnal Green 2 29




sylvia

1881 Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Benjamin SAVAGE Head M Male 43 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Eliza Weedss SAVAGE Wife M Female 41 Yarmouth, Norfolk, England Scruber & Pew Opener (Chaper Offr)
James SAVAGE Son Male 16 Beth Green, Middlesex, England Boot Finisher
Eliza W. SAVAGE Daur Female 13 Beth Green, Middlesex, England Fur Trimmings
Mary C. SAVAGE Daur Female 11 Beth Green, Middlesex, England Scholar
Catherine SAVAGE Daur Female 8 Beth Green, Middlesex, England Scholar
Harry John SAVAGE Son Male 3 Beth Green, Middlesex, England Scholar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 18 Pott Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341092
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0424 / 23
Page Number 29

Rose

I think we might have 2 Elizas!

Eliza Weeds Holman was born 1846, baptized Bethnal Green




but I'll follow through with Eliza Weeds Savage nad baptisms of some of her children




London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Eliza Maria Charlotte Savage
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 19 Jul 1867
Father's Name: Benjamin Savage
Mother's Name: Eliza Weeds Savage
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Address:- 55 Cranbrook Street

Father occupation:- Bricklayer

Birth date:- 30 June 1867



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Katherine Weeds Savage
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 9 Feb 1873
Father's Name: Benjamin Savage
Mother's Name: Eliza Weeds Savage
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Address:- 21 Hope St

Father occupation:- Labourer

Birth date:- 18 Jan 1873




sylvia

Now looks as though there are definitely two Elizas.

Have found Eliza Savage in 1891 (eventually) -


1891 England Census
Name: Eliza Savafl (definitely Savage on original)
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Town: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green North
ED, institution, or vessel: 25b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Savafl 51
James Savafl 26
Harry Savafl 13
James Lyle 45




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 263; Folio 29; Page 59; GSU roll: 6095373.




AND here's Eliza Fountain in 1891 -


1891 England Census
Name: Eliza Fountain
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1848
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Josep D
Gender: Female
Where born: Gt Garmouth, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Somers Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 15a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Josep D Fountain 44
Eliza Fountain 43
Joseph A Fountain 22
Mary Fountain 25
Edward Fountain 16
Harriett Fountain 11
George Fountain 8
Ellen Fountain 6
William Boddy 23




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 128; Folio 141; Page 28; GSU roll: 6095238.



Back to the drawing board, as the saying goes

Im add this as a few of us tried to find a marriage....so duplicate info isn't add


http://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1221334

Seems duplicate info has been added..& i think its unfair that Karen never said she had this already

Thanks for letting me know Julie.

I could have been spending my time doing something else.

Hi Sylvia

I know this is a tough nut to crack
what makes it worse is that I have excellent history from my grandfather as he was able to tell me before he died who and where his father was bornand his profession

Alas it all gets sticky when I rty to find evidence of his mothers marriage to his father

I have Joseph Alfred William Fountain second son to Joseph Owen Fountain and mother as Eliza Manning

I have all this info and have had for 2 years BUT I don't have evidence of Eliza's marriage to Joseph Owen Fountain BUT I do have birth certs of all their children which clearly state who their mother was and her maiden name and where she was born

This is where I cannot go back
I know she was born between 1845-1848 in Yarmouth as I can trace her through the census right up to her death

This is SO frustrating so any help from anyone is graetly appreciated

regards
Tina

Who was the first son? This makes a potential marriage earlier than we expected.

Rose