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Page 2 JC

born Earls court and living in an institution 1901 in Rottingdean. This would correspond to the Kensington birth.

HILL, Frederick Single ? 23 1888 Soldier Lambeth London

HILL, Frederick Single ? 22 1889 Holloway London


HILL, Frederick Single ? 25 1886 London Surrey
County:
Royal Navy at Sea and in ports abroad

You know, I still wonder about these in 1911 (all born in London is the most I can tell):


MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1886 25 Overseas Royal Navy
MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1889 22 Overseas Military
MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1888 23 Overseas Military


The military was an obvious career (or at least job) choice for a young man w/o family or means. Being in the military in 1911, serving the hitch signed up for, and then crewing on a vessel -- not an unimaginable work trajectory. Possibly even being in food services in the military -- then a waiter on the commercial vessel ...

Oh. But his WWI papers say nothing about any earlier hitch. Well ... maybe it hadn't gone well ... ;)

Do the full records for those 1911 names say anything of interest?


(Btw, one of my Ernest's three oral tales that made it down to my generation was that he was a cook on a ship in the military, and his father was too. I know his father wasnt, but he quite possibly was -- what with being a cook when he married 5 years after he deserted!)

Can somebody remind me why Kensington / Rottingdean are so interesting? Just tell me what page it's on, even. ;)

I have reply from Kensington borough research people library thingy. They wish to know if Frederick has any connection to the borough.

Strewth. I am going to send them the Kensington BDM and the Rottingdean info.

Do you want who Evelyn Barnsley married in Australia, where she lived, and possibility of children who may have lived in the same area as she and her husband with the same occupation as his. Marriage was in 1924 and lasted until her death. I did not post it because it was going off on a tangent away from FWH.

If he was the painter then he would not have been a Home child. I did not computer "Home" child until speaking with the National Aust Archives person today. She raised the query about Dr Banardos Homes and about searching similar establishments in the London area.

Following LadyKira's suggestion of contacting the Kensington area library people I have received a reply from them. They have passed on my email to someone who should be able to help.

I agree that Evelyn was the person FWH intended to marry and the date of their arrival in Australia corresponds with the information on his certificate of discharge. See my very first post.

Can not look for children born after 1909 ish in Australia. Only way of doing it is to be a rellie and purchase certificate. But, you need to know date of birth.

I found Evelyn's marriage certificate (and death cert) on the Victoria BDM. These certificates have the name of her parents. Nehemiah and Deborah nee Moss. That is how I know we have the correct Evelyn.

I also contacted Search Trees people (2)with Evelyn Barnsley in their tree. This one was born 1916. One reply has come back as no match.

You certainly put a different slant on information. Some of this I will admit I have seen, and discarded as not matching. I am very poor at making mistranscriptions leap out at me. I need to learn that skill.

How do I thank you all. Too late to hand over my first born. You should breathe a sigh of relief at that piece of information. Sincere and genuine thanks!! From me to you, collectively.

About half way through reading last pages.

Found this last night and have not yet posted it.

Australian Electoral Roll 1919 at 39 Raphael St Abbotsford Victoria Australia.

Annie Barnsley Felt hat trimmer
Deborah Barnsley home duties
Evelyn May Barnsley felt hat trimmer

This is the address of his next of kin EB from the enlistment papers.

I am here and reading.

You were right in that Earls Court is a strong contender.


Irony JC is that it was the venue for the reccent Who Do You Think You Are? exhibition in March.My daughter sent me ther as a mothers day gift.

Janey,
I'm agreeing that you already mentioned the fact that Frederick Hill could have been a Home Child!

I am mentioning Earls Court (in London) because I thought that it had been mentioned as an area he could have come from (It is near Kensington) I can't remember who mentioned it, or in what context though.
Perhaps I imagined it, (oh, I hope not, I'll have egg on my face again)

On a different subject ... Couldn't sleep last night, so whilst looking for something that is in a safe place, I found my birth cert.......
My birth was registered (four years late) by Officer in Charge Major R.L. Monck-Mason.

Any relation to your Hill/Monck family? double lol


Tess

EDIT Sorry about the Maths I'm wrong, lack of sleep (that's my excuse and it's sticking to me) It should have been 1887 ish

Theresa (I'll spell it right this time -- Tess) - what are you seconding?! ;)

What's Earls Court??

Ah: "a district in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea in London, England. It is an inner-city district centred on Earl's Court Road ..."

Why that .....?


And now it's your math being bad -- 1887ish, not 1877ish, no?


*My* Ernest Hill's sister married in the Chapel Royal in Strand reg dist, 1875. I have the impression that means the Savoy. Is that actually classy or just happenstance?

And I can second that Janey! lol

Have had a look at Churches in Earls Court, just in case her was baptised and or his parents were married there.

Found three, St Matthias, St Phillips and St Cuthberts.
(All C of E)
Information from all three re Baptisms and Marriages are available from LMA
I don't know if anyone is able to go to City of London, Guildhall and look for you.

I know that there would have to be some guess work, but would be worth noting Any Frederick Hill baptised around that time (1877 ish).

Any bored Londoners out there?

Tess



I

Well duh, I asked a while back (in the posts since you were last here, true) whether he might be a Home Child!

oh my goodness. Just finished talk with person from National Australian Archives. She suggested child migration!!

http://www.naa.gov.au/naaresources/Publications/research_guides/guides/childmig/chapter2.htm

Lots to read and think about.

But this is one area I had not even considered.


I will read all of your hard work tonight. Paid employment is yelling in my ear.

I thought you wanted the date

LadyKira, FBG did put that exact info on the previous page (as I had put the 1911 info) - duplication does just fill up the pages!

-- I'm editing because a page only holds 14 posts and I hate filling the page up with little things
-- The travel date for Evelyn Barnsley was in FBG's info:
Date of departure: 5 June 1915.
I think it was the specific dates that FWH may have been on the Orontes I wondered about, from AuntyS's records about him. The one she specified that I reproduced on p. 8 was:
Voyage Arrival Date: 6 Apr 1915.
So if he then travelled out again on the Orontes, he would have been on the voyage that departed London 5 June 1915, I'd hope.


-- edit again -- AuntyS -- Evelyn was looking urgently for FWH at the end of the war and we're assuming she is the person he called his fiancée at some point ........ have you looked in Victoria to see whether Evelyn might have had a child during the war??


I'm looking at an interesting marriage ...

- deleting it - an Ellen A Miller married in Wandsworth in the 20s but I think it was one born too late to have married in 1912.

Dang, no crew list - but we know our FWH was on the Orontes in 1915, so I think we can assume he was on that voyage.

Oh -- the date of the voyage for Evelyn and Dorothy Barnsley to Melbourne??


So I'm thinking this is the Ellen A Miller who married that FWH from Battersea:

Births Jun 1888
MILLER Ellen Alice London C 1c 17

The only likely Ellen A that I see in births 1882-1896. No good match in 1911 that I can identify.

1911 census -
Address: 88 Beryl Road Hammersmith W
HILL, Frederick William Head Single M 24 1887 House Painter London Hammersmith

He puts himself down as an employer.

no crew list.

I was posting barnsleys to check if anymore went out and when,

Just to head off possible Barnsley info -- we have all we need! It's Evelyn Barnsley, daughter of Nehemiah Barnsley and Deborah Moss, who was of interest, and AuntyS has all the necessary info on her now.
(edit - LK, I posted the complete 1911 list of Barnsleys already at 22:12 - duplication kind of takes up space ...)

FBG / Ladykira (sort it out among yourselves! - FBG take passenger list, Ladykira the 1911?)

On the 1915 voyage of the Orontes that Evelyn and Deborah Barnsley were on:
- does FMP provide images that show the crew names?
and if so, is there a FWH?

On the 1911 census:
- the details for Frederick William Hill in Fulham
(place of birth, occupation ...)

Leave the Ancestry incomings aside for now.