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I AM TRYING TO FIND MORE ABOUT HUGH HARROP B1825 ? IN KNUTSFORD CHESHIRE AND WHO WAS HIS FATHER, ALSO SIDNEY HUGH HARROP BORN 1884 CHESHIRE HE LEFT HOME TO JOIN THE ROYAL MARINES AND WAS IN GOSPORT AND DEAL KENT

An easy one. ;)

This is him in the 1841 census:

Name: Hugh Harrop
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Where born: Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Knutsford
County/Island: Cheshire
Registration district: Altrincham
Sub registration district: Knutsford

Emma Harrop 40
Thomas Harrop 20
Joseph Harrop 15
Hugh Harrop 15
Jane Harrop 13
William Harrop 10
Emma Harrop 7


At least that would seem to be his mother, with his father apparently deceased.

A request: turn the capitals key off, and it's easier to read your posts!

How do you have the information you have? Possibly you have the 1841 census already, and knew his mother but not his father.

Do you know whom he married? The marriage certificate would give you his father's name, in most cases anyway.

Household in 1851:

Hugh Harrop 26
Ann Harrop 30
Elizabeth Harrop 6
Jane Harrop 5
William Harrop 2
Emma Harrop 9 Mo

So he apparently married by 1844 or so.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

There is only one possible marriage for the specs

surname Harrop
given name Hugh
spouse's given name Ann
1841-1847

and it is in Macclesfield registration district, so hmm, could be the Hugh Harrop who was living in that district in 1841 ...

We should wait until you flesh out your question a bit, I think. You may know all about his marriage.

Now, what about Sidney Hugh Harrop are you looking to find out?

Would this be him in 1911?

MILITARY HARROP SIDNEY 1886 25 Portsmouth Hampshire

1891

Name: Sidney Harrop
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Hugh
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Ollerton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Ollerton

Hugh Harrop 39
Mary Harrop 32
Hannah Harrop 11
Ann Harrop 9
Sidney Harrop 7
Mary Harrop 5


(Grandson of Hugh 1825.)

There are four Sidney Harrop marriages 1911-1925. The one in Ashton under Lyne is likely a grandson of the other Hugh. If you don't know whether he married or to whom, you might have to use trial and error.

A PM from Lesley:

From Lesley
Ok sorry about the caps yes I had got some of that info but do not have any marriage info at all. my greatgrandfather was Hugh and with so many of them and such large families it takes so long to be sure you are following the right line as you may well have guessed I am very new to all this thank you for the help


Next request! Look at the top of the thread and you see the purple Reply button. When you click on it, a box opens to type a message in. Surprise! They do an excellent job of hiding things around here. If you put your replies in the thread, everybody can see 'em. ;)


So -- you know that Sidney was the grandson of the Knutsford Hugh? Son of his son Hugh.

1861:

Name: Hugh Harrop
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Hugh
Mother's Name: Ann
Where born: Ollerton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Ollerton
Registration district: Altrincham
Sub registration district: Knutsford

Hugh Harrop 36
Ann Harrop 40
Elizabeth Harrop 16
William Harrop 12
Emma Harrop 10
Hugh Harrop 9
Thomas Harrop 8
Joseph Harrop 6
Robert Harrop 4
George Harrop 3
Agnes Harrop 1
Fred Harrop 1

Whoa, yes, large family!

What you need is the birth certificate of one of the children of Hugh and Ann. Say, Hugh.

Aargh. There were two Hugh Harrops registered in Altrincham district in 1852. !! (I searched 1850-53 for good measure.)

Since his age in the censuses translates to 1852, he was probably the one registered in March quarter 1852 -- he'd already had his birthday on census night.

But it might be best to pick another identifiable child.

Got one.

Births Sep 1859
Harrop Agnes Altrincham 8a 178

That will give you their mother's full name. With her surname, it should be possible to identify her in the censuses and maybe figure out why she and 1825 Hugh don't seem to have married.

Lesley! No more private messages! You have to put this info in the thread. Switching back and forth from mailbox to discussion board drives us all here nuts.


From Lesley
Sidney Hugh Harrop b1884 10/7 ? I thought he was born in Ollerton Cheshire but unable to find out for sure as he is not with the rest of his family in the 1901 cen I have no idea what age he was when he left ti join up but I believe he did not give his right age I am unable to fill in the gap between then and his arriving in Kent


That is indeed the Sidney in the 1891 census I reproduced here, I think.

His birth is easily found at FreeBMD. A July 10, 1884 birthdate would match the registration quarter, in Altrincham reg dist.

If he did not give his right age, he could be the one in the 1911 census I gave above, who is slightly younger than your Sidney, but is in a military census record.

To look at the details in the 1911 census, you have to buy credits. (Not like Ancestry, where you can subscribe and it covers everything.)

You might want to do that, to see whether you can tell whether it's him.

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

I added birthplace-Cheshire to the search criteria, and that one is the only one in the results.

If you specify year of birth 1885 +/- 3 years, and no place of birth, you also get the other one (household, not military):

HARROP SIDNEY 1884 27 Ashton under Lyne Lancashire

So I do think the one in Portsmouth must be yours:

MILITARY HARROP SIDNEY 1886 25 Portsmouth Hampshire

I'm silly. I was looking too late for the marriage. You should have said! -- you undoubtedly know this:


Marriages Sep 1906
Harrop Sydney Hugh Eastry 2a 2209
RIGDEN Helen Elizabeth Eastry 2a 2209

So you are looking for him between 1891 and 1906.

I checked the Imperial Yeomanry in the Anglo-Boer war -- not there:

http://www.britishmedals.us/files/iyh.htm

but then if he was regular military, Royal Marines you said, he wouldn't be.

Would this not be him then, likely, in 1901?


Name: Sydney Harrop
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Relation: Servant
Where born: Ollerton, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Marthall
County/Island: Cheshire
Registration district: Bucklow
Sub registration district: Knutsford

Jane Hope 45 - farmer
Henry Hope 25
John Wragg 28
John Trafford 21
Sydney Harrop 16 - stockman on farm

Okay, to find 1825 Hugh's father (have had no luck with the IGI), we'll have to find one of his siblings' marriages, and you can get that marriage certificate to find their mutual father's name.

In 1841, we have:

Thomas Harrop 20
Joseph Harrop 15
Hugh Harrop 15
Jane Harrop 13
William Harrop 10
Emma Harrop 7


Looking for Harrop marriages in Altrincham reg dist 1841-1861, there are:

Marriages Jun 1846
Harrop Joseph Altrincham 19 7

Marriages Mar 1857
Harrop William Altrincham 8a 217

Not a large field.

I'm running out of steam here, I'm afraid. ;)

Can't find any related Harrops after 1841 who were born in Knutsford, other than Hugh.

I'll try another go at it tomorrow maybe!

If it helps at all -- this is 1852 Hugh's sister Emma Harrop, in 1871:

Name: Emma Street
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Joseph
Gender: Female
Where born: Ollerton, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Peover Superior

Joseph Street 22
Emma Street 20
Joseph H Street 1
Jane Street 3 months


Marriages Dec 1869
Bowers Elizabeth Altrincham 8a 225
Drinkwater Thomas Altrincham 8a 225
> Harrop Emma Altrincham 8a 225
> Street Joseph Altrincham 8a 225


It can help for searching for extended family, like here at GR.

Speaking of which -- are you in touch with the people who have these three Harrops in their trees?

Hugh 1824 Knutsford, Cheshire
Joseph 1801 KNUTSFORD Cheshire England
Joseph 1801 Knutsford, Cheshire


It's possible that Joseph 1801 is Hugh's father ...

Aargh. The IGI has baptisms for children of 1825 Hugh and Ann, but not Ann's name:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/individual_record.asp

Batch number is: C036581
Parish: Marthall (All Saints)
dates: 1839-1877
(too late for 1825 Hugh!)

GEORGE HARROP
Christening: 02 DEC 1860 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England
Father: HUGH HARROP
Mother: ANN


1852 Hugh's sister Emma before her marriage to Street:

HANNAH MOORES HARROP
Christening: 07 JUL 1867 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England
Mother: EMMA HARROP


There are also children of Joseph Harrop & Martha and William Harrop & Annie in the batch. They must be your 1852 Hugh's brothers.


Results for: Harrop, British Isles
Batch Number: M036581 -- 1866-1885

1. WILLIAM HARROP + Annie Massey
Gender: Male Marriage: About 11 APR 1870 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England

2. JANE HARROP + William Yarwood
Gender: Female Marriage: 18 OCT 1877 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England

3. JOSEPH HARROP + Charlotte Ellen Gradwell
Gender: Male Marriage: 07 FEB 1878 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England

4. EMMA HARROP + Joseph Street (the one I identified earlier)
Gender: Female Marriage: 09 OCT 1869 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England

5. AGNES HARROP + Samuel Yarwood
Gender: Female Marriage: 01 SEP 1877 All Saints, Marthall, Cheshire, England


No Hugh!!!!

But there's some extended family to go hunting for, anyhow.

I'll bet the Samuel Yarwood who married Agnes Harrop (1859, sister of Hugh 1852) is this one in several people's trees:

Samuel 1856 Toft, Cheshire, England
Samuel 1856 Toft KNUTSFORD Cheshire England
Samuel 1856 Toft, Chester, Cheshire
Samuel 1856 Toft, Cheshire, England

In 1881:

Samuel Yarwood 24
Agness Yarwood 21 (Agnes Harrop)
Ann Yarwood 3
Norah Yarwood 2
Infant Yarwood


The same four people have a William Yarwood who could have married Jane Harrop c1846:

William 1851 Higher Tabley, Cheshire
William 1851 Marston, Cheshire, England
William 1851 Marston NORTHWICH Cheshire England
William 1851 Higher Tabley, Cheshire, England

no I did not have the marriage dates yes I did know that Ellen Rigden was his wife and I have her birth cert 1885 I know he went back into the Marines as a colour sargent in the second world war training gunnery crews at Deal Kent I have contacted with 2 people with Hugh 1842 but will double check for Joseph

Okay, well, I put quite a lot of information in ths thread, and quite a lot of effort into finding it.

I hope some of it will prove useful.