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I am trying to assist my Father in locating any living relatives. Peter Norman Franklin was born at the Salvation Army's Mothers' Hospital in Clapton, in Hackney on February 19th 1928 and has just turned 79. His mother was Lilian Gertrude Franklin, an

Outfitters Assistant. She had worked as a shop assistant in Lambeth, residing in 1928 at 26, Camden Road in Peckham .

No fathers name is stated, although I have been led to believe he was a tailor, possibly named Joseph N Wheatly (or Wheatley), of 1 Grove Lane, Camberwell.



Lilian Gertrude Franklin was an illegitimate child herself, born in Camberwell /Peckham on the 12th of May, 1904 naming Agnes Gertrude Franklin as her mother, residing at that time at 42 , Kirkwood Road , Peckham .



Agnes Gertrude Franklin went on to marry Hertbert Hester in 1907 in the District of Camberwell ,



Lilian Gertrude Franklin went on marry Charles Arthur Hall in All Saint’s Church in Peckham South London , Camberwell on the 31st of August 1931, both residing at 5a /59 Willowbrook Road at that time .



My Fathers name was Peter Norman Franklin and he was adopted on the 15th of April 1931 from Hutchinson House , (F.B. Meyers Established )

Orphanage moving to Heaton Norris in Stockport , following a newspaper appeal to re-home him and became Peter Norman Smith .



Only the 1901 census information is available and there is uncertainty regarding the original records,as to whether they have been retained or destroyed due to the amount of time elapsed.

My father remembers an intense argument prior to his placement at the Childrens home.



My father has overcome the feelings of abandonment and has now become curious to learn more about his heritage, and would like something positive to relay to his family, Wife, Daughter and four grandchildren, which will subsequently eradicate the negativity, he commenced his life with.



Please can anyone assist ?

Thank you, we would be extremely grateful, in anticipation of a response !

"Lilian Gertrude Franklin went on marry Charles Arthur Hall in All Saint’s Church in Peckham South London , Camberwell on the 31st of August 1931"

The big question will be whether they had children, since they are both likely deceased now.

You are just a tiny bit ahead of the curve for being able to do an automated search at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

for births after 1931 with surname Hall and mother Franklin. You can do the search "manually", e.g. at Ancestry, by downloading the pages (one for each quarter of each year after the marriage) on which Hall births appear and searching for births with mother Franklin. This can be done with a 14-day free trial subscription. (Or someone here may volunteer to do it; I'm out of time at the moment.)

Or you can wait what will probably be a very few weeks for the database to be updated at FreeBMD, at which point you can do the search using the search engine.

However, you could have a little luck here. There are three Hall-Franklin births in St Olave, a very possible location, starting in June quarter 1931 (and none there before). The birth certificates would state the parents' names. One certificate would likely suffice, as births in June 1931, June 1932 and June 1933 in the same place with the same surnames are likely related.

The Charles-Lilian marriage in Camberwell 1930 has been transcribed, but there is no Hall-Franklin marriage in the vicinity other than theirs and one in Romford 1929, as so far transcribed (which would possibly be incomplete).

I would maybe suggest getting the certificate for one of those births and seeing what it tells you.

One suggestion if you are getting a birth certificate -- the choices are two girls and a boy.

I would get a girl's cert. That will give you her exact birthdate, and another option for tracing, if she is a daughter of your couple. Someone born in the early 1930s may likely be deceased now, and if the person died 1984-2005, that index database is searchable at Ancestry by given name and exact birthdate, without a surname, so it could be possible to identify a death even without knowing a married surname. A death certificate (or published obituary) can then provide family info.

Another possible trail -- children of Agnes and Herbert.

There are no Hester-Franklin births in the index post-1911 (when mother's surnames were first included), but there are three Hester births in Camberwell 1907-1911.

One, Herbert Henry in 1908, would quite likely be a child of Agnes and Herbert. The two in 1911 are on different pages in the same quarter so would likely be children of different couples.

So urgent ... that you haven't bothered to check/acknowledge replies ...

GOING ON EVIEBEAVIE'S FINDINGS ANOTHER POSS BIRTH

ROBIN G HALL
JUN Q 1934
LAMBETH
VOL: 1D
PG: 272
MMN: FRANKLIN

CASSANDRA

Lotta work for someone who hasn't bothered, Cassandra.

I used the automated search at FreeBMD and found three possible births before that one, which ale could find him/herself in a few seconds now that s/he knows how, if s/he didn't before.

Only reason the thread got bumped up from yesterday was me noting how none of the work I did had been so much as acknowledged ... but heck, why not do some more work? ;)

What the heck. There is a Robin G Hall aged 65+ on the electoral roll.

http://www.192.com

Maybe ale cares.

JUST STRUCK LUCKY WITH THE JUNE BIRTH THEME, THERE WERE 4 TO EACH QUARTER INSTEAD OF THE 1, SO NOT DOING ANY MORE!

CASSANDRA

Aha, you're right! Early family planning. ;)

HAHA THANKFULLY WE HAVE THE TELLY NOW !! :)

CASSANDRA

1911 census you would need credits to look at details
may all be in same household
Herbert George Hester 1869
Agnes Hester 1871
Herbert Henry Hester 1908
Lillian Hester 1889
Minnie Sarah Hester1911 (2months)

Hi:
Sorry I havent reply before but I didin't know how to use this...
Thank you so much for all your help....
My dad had a little brother born in 1931 called
Philip Charles Hall born on 20th April 1931....please help me to find any information ....or death record I have been trying to find it for 2 years with no luck
I have check the cencus 1911 of the family lillian Franklin had a brother and a sister ,lillian was an illegitimate child,
Herbert Henry Hester 1908
Lillian franklin 1904
Minnie Sarah Hester1911 (2months)
It will be great find lillian franklin / Hall death certificate I have been trying for many years with no luck, Thank you so much to all of you for such a great help.
Alexandra

You might like to take a look on
http://www.192.com
credits needed to look at address etc details
But might give you some addresses/phone numbers that you could try.In search trees above there is a John who has aLillian Franklin 1904 London might be worth sending him a message.

Here is a possibility for Minnie, ale.


Name: Minnie Sarah Humber
Birth Date: 7 Feb 1911
Death Registration Month/Year: Jul 1999
Age at death (estimated): 88
Registration district: Southwark
Inferred County: London
Register number: C13A
District and Subdistrict: 2511C
Entry Number: 37


The 1984-2005 deaths index at Ancestry can be searched by date of birth and given names, without a surname.

The given names match, the location matches and the date of birth is just about exactly right for being 2 months old at the 1911 census.

You can test this out -- go hunting for a marriage of Minnie Sarah Hester to a Humber, and then children. Or get MSH's birth certificate and check the date of birth against that death. The death certificate could tell you something, and then - if you have matched the birth and death - there is my old standby advice: look for a published obituary in newspaper archives on microfilm at the local library; it would give family names.

Someone else in the same vicinity seems to have been using the same names for children.

Google found this:

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/i/d/Barry-M-Biddle/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0868.html

"Minnie Sarah Hester (daughter of John Pyle Hester and Ruth Tindley) was born 1896 in Camberwell, London, England, and died date unknown."


And there is this death at the Commonwealth War Graves site:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=791460

Name: HESTER, HERBERT HENRY
Initials: H H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Oxford and Bucks Light Infantry
Unit Text: 1st/1st Bucks Bn.
Date of Death: 21/07/1916
Service No: 266545
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 10 A and 10 D.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

(so he would be around the same age as that other Minnie Sarah likely)

... No, he was born in Buckinghamshire 1885.

But the other Minnie Sarah and yours were both born in Camberwell. The elder one ... too young to be a sister of Herbert George 1869, but they gotta be related somehow! John Pyle Hester, her father, could be a brother of Herbert George ...


Anyhow. Mainly wanted to say I'd checked for a WW2 death for HHH, and there was none.

could this be Lilian's marriage??

LILY F HESTER
DEC Q 1930
LAMBETH
VOL: 1D
PG: 693
SPOUSE: PERCY R FORD

POSS MARRIAGE OF HERBERT BORN 1908

HERBERT H HESTER
JUN Q 1932
CAMBERWELL
VOL: 1D
PG: 1203
SPOUSE: FLORENCE B YOUNG

CASSANDRA

It looks as if Herbert Hester & Agnes Gertrude may have had further children -
Birth Herbert Henry Hester Camberwell 1d 910 June 1908
Minnie S Hester Camberwell 1d 849 March 1911

Herbert Hester married a Florence B Young in 1932 and they had a daughter Sylvia H Hester in 1937.(Camberwell)
please help me to find anything on her..


Right have checked 1950 - 1960 for a marriage re Philip Charles(C) Hall, and came up with two of them as follows:

Probable death record for Lilian G Hall age 59 Surrey N 5G 319 2nd quarter 1964
Philip C Hall and Betty Taylor March Qtr 1951 Holderness 2A 111
Philip C Hall and Joan I.M Phipps June Qtr 1953 Bath 7C 38

I also checked Lancashire BM & D's and found the following
Philip C Hall marr Beryl Dunn at Hollinwood, St.Margaret
P.R.O Ref Sept Qtr 1974 Oldham 39 - 0074
Searched 1947-50 marriages - nothing. A few faintly possible 1960-1970
3/1965 Philip C (or G) to ? Wilson -Lichfield 9b 747
1/1968 Philip C to Catherine or Kathleen Barrowcliffe Birmingham 9c 1434
4/1970 Philip C to Angela Y C Teague Gloucester C 7b 890

You might like to have a look in "search trees" above and put in Sylvie Hester 1940 someone called Joanne has her in her tree. I have looked through birth index for 1940 but not found one so it could be worth sending her a message ,she might have the wrong year and it could be your Sylvia?

?? death index (there was a Florence Beatrice Young born 1910)
Name: Florence Beatrice Hester
Birth Date: 22 Apr 1910
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 1995
Age at death (estimated): 84
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Register number: A68
District and Subdistrict: 2291A
Entry Number: 93
If you think it could be the right one you could get the certificate to see who registered it