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Dear Members

My Great great Grandad married a lady called Ellen Coombes so our family bible says.

Ellens Coombe 1900 - 1955.

So the family story goes Ellen Coombes came from a rich family in Scotland (Mackintoshs (Spelling) have been mentioned). She married George Kennedy who was out of her class as he was their gardener. She was banished from the family. I am trying to see whether I can track her parents and see whether this story is true, I know this will make my nan happy after losing her mother recently at the age of 89.

Shane

Scotish family maybe macintar

You've left us with some great big holes, Shane.

When did they marry? Where??


There is one Ellen Coombes-Kennedy marriage in the GRO as so far transcribed by FreeBMD:


Name: Ellen Coombes
Year of Registration: 1917
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Surname: Kennedy
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 1004


Would this be it?

If you think it might, we could check the image for the Kennedy half to verify the given name.


The marriage certificate would ordinarily give her father's name. You need that to track back in time.

If she married in Scotland, or somewhere else, the marriage won't be in the GRO index, of course.

Oops! Ancestry wasn't up to date. Here's the entry at FreeBMD:


Marriages Sep 1917
Coombes Ellen Kennedy Pontypridd 11a 1004
Kennedy George Coombes Pontypridd 11a 1004


This is easily findable, free of charge, at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

That is the information you need to order the marriage certificate, from here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

This looks like the birth of the Ellen Coombes in that marriage, possibly:


Name: Ellen Coombes
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 621


Once you have the marriage certificate and know her father's name and age at marriage, you might have to use guesswork to find the right birth.

However, with her age and father's name, it should be possible to identify her in the 1901 census.

Thanks they may have married there or in wales

that birth cert would be correct... but did she marry a george kennedy and have three child ada, raymond and elaine

ur such a star

maybe im getting confused it could have been her mother that married out of her class... will have to check this out with family

her date of birth is correct 1900 to 1955 can u find an ellen coombes for those dates

That is Wales, Shane. ;)


Working with the info we have now -- you need to order the marriage certificate, there is no way around that -- this is the closest match in the 1901 census.


Name: Hellen Coombes
Age in 1901: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Margaret A
Gender: Female
Where born: Ystrad, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Ystradyfodwg St John
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Household schedule number: 125

Hellen Coombes 1
James Coombes 26
Jenet Coombes 3
Margaret A Coombes 26


However, that James Coombes is a coal hewer.

If that's your Ellen, your family story would be about as accurate as mine about the black sheep younger brother of Viscount Monck. ;)

You have to start with her marriage certificate. Nobody's gonna go anywhere farther now until you get it!

Once you do, come back to this thread and post the details.

You can always find any thread you have posted in by clicking on "My Threads" over on the left side.

If you post a new message here, I will see it when I click on my own "My Threads", because I've posted in this thread.

I meant to mention I have a great times ... probably four, but I'd have to check ... grandmother Elizabeth Coombes myself, sometime back in the 1700s in Cornwall. We're not likely related, but ya never know!

Over to you, Shane!

Go to FreeBMD

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

-- Click on the red "search" in the lower left.

Search for

births
surname Kennedy
mother's surname Coombes

That's all you have to put (mother's surname was only recorded in the index starting in 1911).

You'll find two of the names you mentioned -- the transcribing is not complete yet, so you'll have to wait a bit for the other one.

Those births were in Pontypridd, so all in all it looks like this is your girl -- we just can't be certain of her birth yet.

Order the marriage certificate!

You really are gr8 =P

Will possibly buy that marriage certificate then. So her name is Hellen not Ellen from your search. Ellens mother was probably the one who married out of her class.

Did Hellen Coombes marry a george Kennedy then or is that what Ill find on the cert. shame they dont tell you this on here

Aha! Right track indeed.

I had forgotten to look at where the mother in that 1901 household was born.


Name: Margaret A Coombes
Age in 1901: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James
Gender: Female
>> Where born: Scotland


Looking more and more like your girl, and like at least some of the story is correct!

"So her name is Hellen not Ellen from your search."

No, I'd say her official name was Ellen, from the marriage (and maybe birth) records.

Census takers often heard things slightly incorrectly. This one could have heard "Ellen" and interpreted it as "Helen" with a dropped H.

Here's your next assignment. Did you find the births? You can practise by adding the birth information to this thread.


Go back to FreeBMD.

Search for:


Marriages
surname Coombes
given name James
spouse's surname [leave it blank]
spouse's given name Margaret

use the years 1890 to 1900, to fire good and wide.

You'll get two results. One of them is in Wales.

Click on the page number beside the James Coombes name.

You will get a list that gives you Margaret's surname.

Everything is holding up from you family story so far!


And now, when you order the Ellen Coombes - George Kennedy marriage certificate, you can also order her parents' marriage certificate!

That will give you Margaret's father's name and occupation.

Then you can look for her in the 1891 census ...

And you're off and running!!

But I'm going to make you do the FreeBMD work. It is much more exciting to dig it up for yourself. ;)

ok thats good. I will put it down as Ellen..

Did Ellen or Hellen die in Taunton 29/08/1955

Oh -- one note.

When you do the search for the James Coombes - Margaret marriage, you have an unfortunate coincidence.

The page shows two marriages -- two brides and two grooms -- but it doesn't tell you who married whom. (That only started in 1911 too.)

And bad luck. Both of the grooms on that page married a Margaret!

But I think you can be pretty sure which Margaret is yours. ;)

So when you order the marriage certicate, you only put down *one* name -- James Coombes. That's the name you're sure of. The certificate will tell you which bride was his, for sure.

OMG I think your right you said her birth was registered at Pontypridd this is where she would have got married from an old family bible it must be her

"Did Ellen or Hellen die in Taunton 29/08/1955"


Aargh, you. I have to go home make dinner. And my cigarette lighter just died. ;)

For that, I have to do more work. The index for 1955 isn't transcribed, so I shall go download the page image at Ancestry and check.

You may want to consider subscribing to Ancestry

http://www.Ancestry.co.uk

so you can do your own searching. ;)

Okay, here we go. The page is downloading ...

jul-aug-sep 1955
KENNEDY Ellen
age 55
district Taunton
volume 7c
page 173


That's your Ellen's death? Keep in mind it doesn't *prove* that anything we've found is your Ellen. Birth and marriage certificates are needed for that.

If you think the death certificate would tell you something you don't now (it could have a family member's name as the informant of death), you can order it as well. It will not ordinarily give any info like place of birth or husband's or parents' names or anything, though.