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I am trying to trace my great grand father John Collopy who was born in India in 1850 approx. His parents were Michael and Harriet Collopy. It appears they went to India where his dad served with the 22nd Regiment as a drummer and was killed in 1861.John was born there but he always told my dad that he was bought up by the Christian Brothers in a childrens home in India so obviously his mum must have died there but I cannot trace any records of his birth, her death or his passage to the UK. HELP!!! Can anyone advise me what to do. His dad was buried in march 1861 in India but cannot find out what happened to his mum (Harriet Elizabeth). They just don't appear in any records. Thanks

LIZZY

Lizzy - can you give us some reference points - like who did he marry and when? Have you found him in any census?

That will give us something to work back from.

(PS - can you possibly edit your post to remove all the empty lines at the end? - makes it a bit hard to check back to!)

This looks like it could be him in 1911 census:

COLLOPY, John Head Married M 57 1854 Dock Labourer Madras India
COLLOPY, Emma Wife Married 30 years F 56 1855 Chelmsford Essex

Registration District: Stepney Sub District: Shadwell & Ratcliff Enumeration District: 11 Parish: Shadwell

Address: 54 Elbow Lane Buildings Shadwell London East
County: London

** Original says they had 3 children in total, but only 1 lived.

only Collopy I could find in India

India Office Family History Search > Search Results > Record details


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Record details

Name: Michael COLLOPY
Event type: Burial
Date: 24 MarYear: 1861
Location: Vizagapatam
Age: 41
Status: Pte., Pensioner, E.I.Vet.Co
.Will administration: Notes: Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office Records Reference:
N/2/42 f.76 Source name: Source year: Source edition: Presidency: Madras

Name: John Patrick Collopy
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Spouse Name: Emma Lamb
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 11 Dec 1877
Parish: St Botolph Bishopsgate
County: London
Borough: City of London
Father Name: Michael Collopy (Soldier)
Spouse Father Name: Abraham Lamb (deceased)

(a possble Marriage? image says Widower for John)

Chris :)

James MC DERMOTT Soldier U Male 20 Carlisle, Cumberland, England Private 22 Regiment
James MC DONALD Soldier U Male 20 Scotland Private 22 Regiment
James MARCER Soldier U Male 20 Manchester, Lancashire, England Private 22 Regiment
John MILLER Soldier U Male 45 Longton, Stafford, England Private 22 Regiment
Henry MORRIS Soldier U Male 19 Ellesmere, Shropshire, England Private 22 Regiment
James PEGRAM Soldier U Male 42 Bossett, Essex, England Private 22 Regiment
Richard PORTER Soldier U Male 24 Whitchurch, Shropshire, England Private 22 Regiment
William SCOTT Soldier U Male 18 Leeds, York, England Private 22 Regiment
Joseph SMITH Soldier U Male 18 Frodsham, Cheshire, England Private 22 Regiment
Henry SMITH Soldier U Male 24 Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Private 22 Regiment
Arthur Cecil GRIFFITH Soldier U Male 30 Rochester, Kent, England Orderly Room Clerk 18 B Depot
Thomas WITHERS Soldier U Male 34 Werther, Shropshire, England Sergeant 22 Regiment
Arthur Tudor OWEN Soldier U Male 27 Chester Sergeant 22 Regiment
Michael COLLOPY Soldier U Male 27 Belle Quay, Northumberland, England Drummer 22 Regiment
Matthew ANDERSON Soldier U Male 39 Willenhall, Stafford, England Private 22 Regiment
John ATHERTON Soldier U Male 36 Chatham, Kent, England Private 22 Regiment
Peter ATTERLEY Soldier U Male 30 Boston, Lincoln, England Private 22 Regiment
Alfred BARLOW Soldier U Male 18 Stockport, Cheshire, England Private 22 Regiment
Ralph BULLOCK Soldier U Male 29 Sandbach, Cheshire, England Private 22 Regiment
Owen BRISTOW Soldier U Male 19 Wycombe, Buckingham, England Private 22 Regiment
(Continued)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Institution "Chester Castle Barracks & Military Hospital"
Census Place Chester Castle, Cheshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341852
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3557 / 115
Page Number 4

PM from Liz:

Thanks for your reply. He does appear on the census from age 19 and then when he got married. As I said earlier, he always told my dad he was a orphan born in India (in fact on the census he has stated that he was born there) I just dont know what to do next. His dad was Michael Collopy (born in Ireland 1826) and his mum was Elizabeth Harriet Peters (she was known as Harriett) John was married twice. First to Amelia Read but she died age 21 in 1877 and in the same year he married Emma Lamb (he didn;t wait long did he!) with whom he had my nan ( and I think he had 2 other kids who died) John was born 1848/50 and died around 1930. I'm so curious as to what happened to his parents. I really appreciate your help.

and another pm from Elizabeth!!

Thank you so much. You have found my GGGrandad! As my GGdad was bought up in a home perhaps his mum abandoned him or died. Thank you so much

My GGGrandad is listed as being in india aged 27, which Ann of Green Gables so kindly posted. However, he appears in the 1851 census as living in Bristol and then he dies in 1861 in India, which would mean he joined the army age 30ish which doesn't add up. Also, does anyone know what the 22nd regiment did out there and finally how can I trace what happened to his wife because my GGGF was brought up as an orphan.

Cheshire Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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furher request from Eizabeth

am trying to trace my gggrandmother Elizabeth Harriet Collopy (nee Peters)
(I hope its her anyway!) She married Michael Collopy (DOB 1820/26) in 1849 and went to India where they had a son John who was born approx 1850 in Madras. Sadly, Michael died in 1861 and was buried in India. (info kindly supplied by Ann of Green Gables) but we have no news on his wife. Apparently my GGgrandad was bought up by the Christian Brothers in one of their homes in India before he eventually moved back to UK. I have searched but no joy so how can find out what happened to her? I must assume that she died if her son was put in an orphanage. To confuse the issue even more an Michael and Harriet (as she was known) appear in 1851 census as living Bristol so when did he join the army? I am very confused. Any advice will be greatly appreciated

nudged up for Lizzy.

Dea x

My great great father was John Collopy. He was born in Madras in 1848/50. His parents were Michael (DOB 1826) and Elizabeth Harriet (DOB 1825 nee Peters). They married in Bristol in 1849 and went to India where Michael served in the 22nd regiment and died in 1861. My problem is that John was bought up in a Christian Brothers orphanage. I know this for sure as he used to tell my dad this. I have been trying to find out what happened to his mum. (Did she die or abandon him) I cannot find one record her at all, nor can I find out when John came to the UK. (he later married Emma Lamb in 1877 and had my nan) My brick wall is now so thick i don't think I'll ever get through it! I have looked at every website on India and orphanages that I can find but no joy. I just don't know what to do next. Please help!

bbb

for our info (where are they in 1881?) -- 1891 census

Name: John Collopy
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Collopy
Where born: East Indies, Banzaloore -- it says Bangaloore

Civil parish: Shadwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Shadwell
Town: London

John Collopy 43
Emma Collopy 40
Caroline Collopy 7


Christian Brothers orphanages in the mid-20th century were horrible, abusive places to grow up. They took in orphans, children of parents unable to care for them, and "incorrigible" children.

I would expect that in India at that time the child would have been a genuine orphan, unless, yes, he was abandoned.

Google

"christian brothers" india

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Brothers_schools

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_Brothers_schools#India

There are links to info about various schools ... One might think he was in Madras as that's where his father died.

There is a link here

http://edmundrice.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95&Itemid=83

-- click on India and info drops down -- with contact info in India. You might try sending an email to enquire about whether any records exist.

The Michael Collopy in the census Ann o' GG posted:

Michael COLLOPY Soldier U Male 27 Belle Quay, Northumberland, England Drummer 22 Regiment

>> born in Northumberland.

That's the 1851 census? Um, no, it's the 1881:

Name: Michael Collopy
Birth: abt 1854 - Belle Quay, Northumberland, England
Residence: 1881 - Chester Castle, Cheshire, England

so it's entirely unrelated.


You say yours was born in Ireland. Can you say where that info is from?

"His parents were Michael (DOB 1826) and Elizabeth Harriet (DOB 1825 nee Peters). They married in Bristol in 1849 and went to India where Michael served in the 22nd regiment and died in 1861."

Could you just explain for us how you have connected that couple with your John born in India? John's father's name on his own marriage certificate being Michael I assume, but beyond that?


the 1851 census you refer to -- which is *after* the birth of John in India:

Name: Michael Colopy (it looks like Colapy)
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriett Colopy - born St James
Where born: St Stephen

Civil parish: Bristol St Michael
County/Island: Gloucestershire


St Stephen refers to Bristol, I believe. What is the source of your information that Michael was born in Ireland?

What is there that connects this couple with your John born in India?


-- that Michael died in Bristol in 1854. Sorry, but you seem to be on entirely wrong track there:

Name: Michael Collopy
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bristol
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 50

I wonder whether these events in India might be related to your John -- just posting for info

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html


Name: Patrick Colopy
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 05 Oct 1845
> Baptism/Christening Place: Cannanore, Madras, India
Birth Date: 02 Oct 1845
> Father's Name: Michael Colopy
Mother's Name: Mary
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00879-2
Collection: India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Groom's Name: Stephen Field
Groom's Birth Date: 1827
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 24
> Bride's Name: Bridget Collopy
> Bride's Birth Date: 1836
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 15
Marriage Date: 14 Oct 1851
> Marriage Place: Bangalore, Madras, India
Groom's Father's Name: Richard Field
> Bride's Father's Name: Michael Collopy
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00059-4
Collection: India Marriages, 1792-1948

The Indian Mutiny Medal Roll (British Forces) 1857-1859.
Given Names(s) Stephen
Surname Fields
Rank Private
Regiment or Ship 74th Foot (Highland)

Name: Stephen Fields ?
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 09 Jan 1862
> Burial Place: Aurungabad, Madras, India
Death Date: 08 Jan 1862
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B00202-1
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948



Given the dates, we would expect to find Michael Collopy on the Indian Mutiny Medal Roll 1857-1859, but the only Collopy is:

http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php

Given Names(s) Joseph
Surname Collopy
Rank Private
Regiment or Ship 38th Foot (1st Staffordshire)

(The only other Collopy in that database is the Bridget marriage)


... I do particularly wonder whether John might have been the child of an unmarried Bridget Collopy, and Michael Collopy an invention -- or Bridget's father. It wasn't unknown for a child of unmarried parents to name their maternal grandfather as father when they married.

In that case, he might simply have been placed in the orphanage at birth.

Liz, you absolutely have to reply in the thread and not by private message! Nobody wants to spend their time toggling back and forth and copying your messages here for you. ;)


"Seems that I've mucked this up! Oh God! I've been chasing the wrong man. John told my nan he was born in madras so at least I've got the right place. I suppose I will have to start again. Thanks for your help"


You're welcome, although so far it's not much more than speculation. ;)

I've been poring over FIBIS and pilot.familysearch and International Genealogy Index searches but what I've posted (look back, I've been editing and adding to keep things together) is pretty lean, I'm afraid.