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I have traced one of my paternal great grandfathers, Charles Coe, and have a copy of his birth certificate.

His birth was registered in CHORLTON: subdistrict Hulme in 1849.

Actual dob 28th September 1849

His mother (the informant) was Mary Coe (formerly Beech)

Father: William Coe Blacksmith.

There would appear to be no trace of william and Mary (the common variety!) in the 1851 census.

There is a death recorded for a Mary Coe in 1850 registerd in CHORLTON. I am currently awaiting a copy of this certificate to check if it is my great great grandmother.

baby Charles is shown in the 1851 census as living with a Coe family in Northwich

Details;

Johnson Coe Head Bricklayer 64
Anne Coe Wife 62
Thomas Coe Son Shoemaker 31
Martha Coe Dau servant at home 23
Eliza Coe Niece 3
Charles Coe Nephew 17 months

Charles's place of birth is given as Manchester. Eliza has a different place of birth but may be Charles's sister.

Given the age difference between Johnson Coe and Charles, I at first thought that Johnson was an uncle, of Charles's father, William.

In the 1861 Census William reappears together with Charles in St Helens. They are listed as lodgers in the Cottrall (?) family at Gilheel Street.

William's age is given as 35 but profession glass mould maker
Charles's age 11 profession mould cleaner place of birth Manchester.

William also appears in the 1871 census at 10 Anderton Road Northwich with the Coe family

Details
Thomas Coe Head 50 shoemaker
William Coe Brother 48 blacksmith
John Coe Brother 43 saltboiler
Margaret Coe Sister 46 domestic servant
Martha Coe Sister 45 housekeeper
Charles Coe Nephew 21 bricklayer

Charles is listed as having been born in Manchester, all the rest as being born in Lower Whitley Cheshire

Now, if William appears in the 1871 Census as Thomas's brother why would Charles be listed in the 1851 census as Johnson's nephew when he would certainly have been his grandson?

Either Johnson is my 3xgreat grandfather or he has a brother or brothers lurking somewhere.

The only other Information I have is that Johnson was either born, or christened, at Aston in Cheshire sometime around 1787 or later given the age discrepancies in the census returns.

The age discrepancies also appear with William!

Any help or advice on how to proceed from here would be much appreciated.

I would also add that I reside in Australia so a quick trip to check parish registers etc is not possible at this time

Regards

Allan

Oh, what a tangled web!
These are from BVRI, any help?

COE, Johnson Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 13 Aug 1786 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

Other children of Richard in Gt. Budworth:

COE, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 14 May 1775 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, William Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 3 Jan 1777 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COO, Samuel Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 20 Dec 1778 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COO
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Ellen Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 12 Feb 1784 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Richard Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 31 Aug 1788 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Betty Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 24 Jul 1791 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Richard COE
Mother: Martha
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

(Last one is only one with mother's name.)

I went looking to find Johnson Coe in 1841

This looks like him .... but no William with him!


1841 Census

Name: Johnson Coe
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Great Budworth
Hundred: Bucklow
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Northwich
Sub registration district: Northwich

Johnson Coe 50 Bricklayer J ................. I think J may mean Journeyman
Ann Coe 50
Richard Coe 20 Bricklayer J
Thomas Coe 20 Cordwainer
Martha Coe 17
John Coe 10
Charles Coe 5

Address:- Cogshull

all born in county (ie, Cheshire)


remember that ages on the 1841 are upto 4 years out as they were rounded down to the closest 5


sylvia

Children of Johnson from BVRI:

COE, Richard Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 21 Sep 1817 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Johnson COE
Mother: Anne
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Thomas Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Apr 1820 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Johnson COE
Mother: Anne
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Margaret Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 19 May 1822 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Johnson COE
Mother: Anne
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, John Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Feb 1830 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Johnson COE
Mother: Ann
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

Did you discard thsi William Coe?

The image is quite clear .... this fmaily is living in the same house as family Higgins, but are Coe

Note thta this William was born in Great Budworth ...................... which is where Johnson and family are

I'm just wondering if this is Johnson's son, and the other William Coe is a nephew???????????????


1861 Census

Name: William Higgin
[William Coe]
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Anderson
Town: Northwich
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Northwich
Sub registration district: Northwich

William Higgin 36
Louisa Higgin 38
Amelia Higgin 11
William Higgin 9
John Higgin 6
Joseph Higgin 3
Thomas Higgin 1


all are Coes


sylvia

Children of William Coe in Gt. Budworth from BVRI:

COE, William Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 23 Mar 1800 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Wm. COE
Mother: Martha
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Margaret Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 13 May 1804 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Wm. COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Mary Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 8 Jun 1806 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Wm. COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

COE, Betty Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 18 Dec 1808 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Wm. COE
Mother: Martha
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

Then this William, an illegitimate son of Betty:

COE, William Christening
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 2 Oct 1825 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Mother: Betty COE
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

(Looks like the one Sylvia found in 1861 mistranscribed as Higgin.)

Many thanks, Margaret and Sylvia.

The information about Richard's other children is extremely helpful. I know it is perhaps only acedemic but I would still love to know what the relationship between Johnson Coe and Charles Coe really was. Uncle, Great Uncle, Grandfather?

I realise that this may be impossible to determine, but know that I have Richard's name I supppose that it is only acedemic

Once again, my sincere thanks to you both

Regards from Oz

Allan

One last one, a child of Thomas:

COA, Ann Christening
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 7 Nov 1830 Recorded in: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father: Thomas COA
Mother: Ellen
Source: FHL Film 1655825 Dates: 1741 - 1833

Hi Sylvia,

The Coe family in Northwich are I think all related. I sent off for a copy of my great grandfather Charle's Death Certificate only to find that it was the wrong one. However, the informant was my great grandmother, Annie Coe whose relationship was given as niece.

I am also finding out that the name Coe is nearly as common as Smith!

Regards

Allan

Is this this William Coe?

Name: William Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 2 Oct 1825
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Mother's Name: Betty Coe


but she may also have had an earlier William, who possibly died

Name: William Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1 Apr 1821
Christening Place: Stockport, Cheshire, England
Mother's Name: Betty Coe


???Thomas

Name: Thomas Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Apr 1820
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Johnson Coe
Mother's Name: Anne




Coe's christened in Cheshire parents Johnson and Ann(e)


Name: Richard Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 21 Sep 1817
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Johnson Coe
Mother's Name: Anne



Name: Thomas Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 9 Apr 1820
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Johnson Coe
Mother's Name: Anne


Name: Margaret Coe
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 19 May 1822
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Johnson Coe
Mother's Name: Anne


Name: John Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 28 Feb 1830
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Johnson Coe
Mother's Name: Ann


BUT no William ...... only these two


Name: William Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 1 Apr 1821
Christening Place: Stockport, Cheshire, England
Mother's Name: Betty Coe


Name: William Coe
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 2 Oct 1825
Christening Place: Great Budworth, Cheshire, England
Mother's Name: Betty Coe






sylvia

Many thanks for the further information, Sylvia

regards

Allan

Hi Sylvia,

I must be as thick as a brick.!!

I've just noticed from your earlier post reagrding Johnson Coe at the 1841 census.

Both Richard and Thomas are shown as aged 20... were they twins I wonder?

Richard does not appear in the Johnson Coe Household in the 1851 Census

Allan

Allan, ages of those over 15 on the 1841 census are rounded down to the nearest 5. Richard & Thomas are both shown as age 20 meaning they could be 20-24. i had given the births earlier, Richard 1817 and Thomas 1820, so Richard was 24 and Thomas 20.

Hi Sylvia,

I guess that answered my own question....I am as thick as a brick!

My sincere apologies to you. Yes you had given me both pieces of information, but I read them in isolation without linking them

Regards

Allan

chorlton 1851 recovered census - the only Coe's listed - no details

15 COE
16 COE Susannah
17 COE Susannah
18 COE Mary
19 COE Joseph
20 COE William

cf site http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/

Hi Gail and Lancashireanne,

Many thanks for this additional info.

I am in contact with another member who is also researching one of the William Coes

William may also have gone AWOL as his wife died in 1850 aged 22. The death cert says cause of death apoplexy the old term for a stroke or seizure.

That could be why their son Charles (my grt grandfather) is in Northwich staying with relatives in 1851. I have also since confirmed that Eliza was Charle's sister.

Once again my thanks to you both