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John Stanley and Albert Victor's birth certs both reg by mother and give maiden name Charlton.
The Bateman to Charlton is the one I had followed through.
Appreciate all replies.

Just putting this here as a maybe.

Marriages Sep 1903 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>>BEEDEN Herbert Camberwell 1d 1807
>>>>>>>>>>>>>KIRK Ada May Camberwell 1d 1807
Lavers Edith Caroline Camberwell 1d 1807
MACCARTHY William Eugene Camberwell 1d 1807

EDIT :
NO - DON'T THINK SO... WRONG AGE.
FOUND A DEATH IN 1945 AGED 66
***************************************

Have you got these birth certs ?
Do these give Ida's maiden name as Parker or Charlton ?

Births Sep 1896
Kirk John Stanley - Greenwich 1d 1141

Births Dec 1897
Kirk Albert Victor - Greenwich 1d 1137

This could be the marriage for the record that MgtManson found


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1888 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>BATEMAN Minnie Bradford Y. 9b 154
>>>>>>>>>Charlton Harry Bradford Y 9b 154
Hall James Bradford Y 9b 154
Hardaker Sally Bradford, Y. 9b 154

Wow thanks for that. I'll get that cert. It may give something about earlier and why the delay. Kirk is my main as John Albert was my grandfather, ida my grandmother.

Looks like it wasn't offical in 1911


Marriages Mar 1918 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beer Herbert - Mann Bromley 2a 1255
MANN Lilian M - Beer Bromley 2a 1255

Have her as Lilian M Beer but will explore.

Maybe she was Sadie Lilian

Marriages Dec 1910 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BEER Herbert J - St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1079
Dunk Sadie L - St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1079

EDIT :
WRONG ONE.

Mike - Herbert had put her as Beer formerly Parker on the birth cert of the child he registered.

Thanks yes the death of Ida tog with the census of 1901 gives me a birth date of 1869-1877 in USA but no earlier census in Eng to narrow down. Rather a lot of non-marriages even for those days. There is a marr for a Herbert J Beer in Dec Qtr 1910 but not likely to be him as it is not to a Lilian and she is still with him in 1919.

Ida Minnie Beer death reg 1908 age 31 Lewisham 1d/525 September. In 1911 Herbert is remarried to a Lilian says 2 years. They have one child Edith ,1year born Paddington. I can't find a marriagr for them either.
Edith reg Paddington1a/17 March 1910.
Eileen

yes thanks - followed that one through and found her in later census and eliminated. Bit of a co-incidence though.

There's this Minnie Charlton born USA on the 1891 census but she's the wife of Harry Charlton.
1891 census
33 Ripley St., Bowling, Bradford, Yorkshire
Harry Charlton, head, 22, warp twister, born Bradford
Minnie, wife, 22, born America (British Subject)
Ethel, dau, 2, born Bradford
Frank, son, 5 months, born "

Thanks Mike - I appreciate you looking though. I follow through everyone possible into previous and later census' in order to eliminate. John Albert was a Grocer's manager and I have even looked via that. Also looked at immigrants/emigrants. hence running out of ideas.

.When you say that Ida's surname was written as Parker or Charlton, does that mean she wasn't Mrs Beer ?................or do you mean her maiden/previous name ?

Thank you Anne-Marie yes I found that one which helped which was also confirmed with Albert's war record and details when his medals were sent to his family in 1919.

Yes thankyou I have tried. I have been looking for years. I even considered if Ida and John had married in USA working on the thought that there was some reason why not. On the birth cert of Herbert Beer Jnr the father registered it and put Ida's surname as Parker, but where she registered it herself she put Charlton. No sign of her under Minnie as a christian name or Parker as a surname.
Trying to follow John Albert I have only found a couple in England and they appear to have married after the birth of John Stanley and Albert therefore no help there.

Just as a reference point, here's Ida and Herbert in 1901:

BEER, Herbert Head Married M 35 1866 Brewers Drayman Canterbury Kent
BEER, Ida Wife Married F 32 1869 American U S
BEER, Stanley Son M 5 1896 Blackheath Kent
BEER, Albert Son M 4 1897 Blackheath Kent
BEER, Herbert Son M 0 (8 MOS) 1901 Lewisham Kent

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
549 Folio:
75 Page:
37

Registration District:
Lewisham Sub District:
Lewisham Enumeration District:
9 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Marks

Civil Parish:
Lewisham Municipal Borough:
Address:
6, Pascoe Road, Lewisham County:
London

The two older boys are obviously the sons from Ida's first marriage.

As this is hard to read I will just ask have you tried looking here

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

If you think they may have married in England or Wales

jax

I have been trying to find marriages of an Ida Minnie CHARLTON (born USA -1869-1877 where?) married (?) to 1) John Albert KIRK c 1894 -children John Stanley born Greenwich, England(1896-1948) Albert Victor born Greenwich, England(1897-1917)and 2) Herbert James BEER c1900 children Herbert J (1900)born Lewisham and Florence (1903) born Lewisham. Ida died 1908. No trace of John Albert after 1896.Stuck on ancestry with this brick wall.