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Florence Maude Lavender Bates born 1870 Heathfield Sussex married James baid Carswell 1893 Would like to trace any family.

1871 England Census
about Florence M Bates
Name: Florence M Bates
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Lydia
Gender: Female
Where born: Heathfield, Sussex, England
Civil parish: Heathfield
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Hailsham
Sub-registration district: Hellingly
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 38
Household Members: Name Age
Lydia Bates 28 colonels wife, husband in India
Lydia E Bates 4
John C A Bates 3
Florence M Bates 1
Fanny Lovell 17 servant
Henry Dann 50 servant

Christine

1901 England Census
about Florence Carsnell
Name: Florence Carsnell
[Florence Bates]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Lydia
Gender: Female
Where born: Heathfield, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: London


Registration district: Paddington
Sub-registration district: St Mary, Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 352
Household Members: Name Age
Lydia Bates 60 wid
Florence Carsnell 30 wid
Frederick Bates 24


Christine

Hi,

I wonder if this is just a coincedence??

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bate Florence Maud L Leighton B. 3b 855
Fathers Walter Leighton B, 3b 855
Little Robert Leighton B. 3b 855
Wheatley Blanche Leighton B. 3b 855



Dee x

Maybe the other marriage was a coincedence;


1911 using an advanced search;

HOUSEHOLD CARSWELL FLORENCE MAUD LAVENDER F 1872 39 Paddington London Occupation Domestic
HOUSEHOLD JOHNSON RICHARD GUTHERIE M 1900 11 Paddington London
HOUSEHOLD SKINNER SARAH HELENE F 1867 44 Paddington London


Dee x

I'm sorry not very good at this Florence maried James Baird Carswell 23 Dec 1893 but I cannot find a death for James .Florence is a widow in 1901 census , cannot find if she got married again or when she died.

Do you have the 1893 marriage cert?

Just wondering about the age of James and his occupation or does it name his father & occupation


1901 keep looking at this one?

Name: James B Carswell
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: chartering clerk

Condition as to marriage: Single

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: Wandsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 168
Household Members: Name Age
Janet L Stirling 39
James B Carswell 34
Robert ME Kinnell 33
Agnes Millar 24


1891
Name: James B Carswell
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Scotland

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pancras
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Gay 67
Catherine Gay 61
Emma C Gay 30
Percy W Gay 24
Albert H Gay 21
Florence G Gay 19
Robert N McIntosh 19
Margaret P McIntosh 23
James B Carswell 22
Hector D Carswell 21
Samuel Lee 54

What was James's occupation on the marriage certificate? Could he have been a soldier and died abroad?

Not got the right sub on Ancestry to view this

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
The marriage is listed

I have marriage certificate James is 25 a batchelor profession Gentleman father David Carswell also Gentleman. James residence 8Tavistock Place Tavistock Square

This looks like him in 1891 with his brother Hector?

Name: James B Carswell
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Perth, Scotland

Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Pancras
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Tottenham Court
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Gay 67
Catherine Gay 61
Emma C Gay 30
Percy W Gay 24
Albert H Gay 21
Florence G Gay 19
Robert N McIntosh 19
Margaret P McIntosh 23
James B Carswell 22 Manager Spice Factory
Hector D Carswell 21
Samuel Lee 54




Because this could be him with his father in 1881



Name: David Carswell
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Grace
Gender: Male
Where born: Auchtertool, Fife Shire
Registration Number: 395
Registration district: Tibbermore
Civil parish: Tibbermore
County: Perthshire
Address: Tibbermore Railway Siding
Occupation: Railway Pointsman <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 2
Line: 4
Roll: cssct1881_112
Household Members: Name Age
David Carswell 42
Grace Carswell 37
James B Carswell 12
Hector D Carswell 11
David Carswell 2


On the 1901 census posted earlier he claims to be single.

I wonder if he misled Florence by claiming to be a Gentleman and his father too! Perhaps she found it easier to be a "widow" that let people know she had been duped?

Could be the whole family are a mistery to me sister Lydia married Robert Walker Macbeth and ad 2 daughters be someone else . My poor grandad there brother lost his first wife and his mother in the same year and then he married my nan.

Have death certificate for Florence she died 1952 a nursing home in Virgina Water. I managed to trace her 1911 census in domestic service but dont know where she was in between.

Hi Joyce,

there are a few trees on ancestry and they state she had a son 8th May 1895 James Baird Carswell, one tree says he was born Scotland the other Isalnd of Borneo. He died in Florida.

It maybe worth contacting the tree owners??

Dee x

On the 1911 census Florence states that there were no children from her marriage.

There is this possible death on Scotlandspeople for James - sorry, I don't have enough credits left to look at it.

1912 CARSWELL JAMES BAIRD M 44 HILLHEAD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 0925

He is also on the 1911 Scottish census living in Hillhead.

1911 CARSWELL JAMES BAIRD M 41 HILLHEAD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/12 008/00 015

Following on the 1901 census for James B Carswell living with Janet L. Stirling. I am not sure that he is the same James B Carswell. as the 1891 man. Janet gives her birth place as Canada and she is single.

Here she is in 1891.

Name: Jessie L Stirling
[Jessie L Carswell]
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Mother's Name: Jane Carswell
Gender: Female
Where born: Canada
Registration number: 644/9
Registration district: Kelvin
Civil parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 100 Buccleuch St
Occupation: House Keeper
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 105
Line: 2
Roll: CSSCT1891_274
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Carswell 61 b. Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Living on own means
Jessie L Stirling 29
James B Carsewell 24 b. Largs, Ayrshire, Shipbrokers Clerk
Thomas A M Carsewell 20 b. Largs, Ayrshire, Shipbrokers Clerk
John R Carsewell 19 b. Largs, Ayrshire, Oil Manufacturers Clerk
John Houston 24 Visitor, b. Largs, Ayrshire, Purser


This looks like the birth for him, so I think his middle name is Buchanan not Baird.

Name: James Buchanan Carswell
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 02 Sep 1866
Birthplace: LARGS,AYR,SCOTLAND
Father's Name: John Carswell
Mother's Name: Jane Buchanan
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11602-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516
Reference Number:

Looking at those Public Trees on Ancestry, 1has the same death certificate for Florence that you have.

Another has these details for her.

Florence Maude Laveneder Bates

Birth abt 1870 in Bombay British Subject, India
Death Nov 1963 in Manatee, Florida, United States

It is all rather confusing as if that is the correct Florence Carswell in 1911 she definately states that there were no children from the marriage. In 1901 she is living in Paddington. I think that we need someone with shipping lists. Could she have split with James and gone to visit her brother in Canada while pregnant? Then giving birth to a son James Baird Carswell in 1895 left him to be reared by her Canadian relatives?

Name: James Baird Carswell
Birth Date: 10 May 1868
Birthplace: TIBBERMORE,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's Name: David Carswell
Mother's Name: Grace Drysdale
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11395-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 6035516