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Trying to find the death of Elizabeth Carroll (numerous spellings!) She married William Thomson in Paisley in 1875, gave birth to Janet Thomson July 1876, then just vanishes!
In 1881 census, her two children were living with relatives and William (still said to be married) was working and lodging away from home.
By 1891, he is given as a widower.
Unsure whether she died or possibly abandoned the family, but have tried for years to find a death entry, under various spellings of both surname and Christian name.
Any help would be VERY gratefully received, thanks!

hi janice i tryed to find william in1881\1891 but no luck can you tell me how old he was
carroll nane their was elizabeth who married peter chappel did you look at this marriage

yours helen

Do you have personal info about Elizabeth -- date and place of birth, parents' names?

If you have viewed the marriage record at ScotlandsPeople, it should give her age and her parents' names.

With that, it should be possible to find her in a census before marriage, to get her place of birth. Date and place of birth are really needed for trying to find her in the 1881 census and later, in case she was still living then.

Searching for surname Car*l, the only people with a surname resembling Carroll in Paisley in 1871 are:


Name: Janes Caroll (can't view image at Ancestry to see what it really is)
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Paisley, Renfrewshire
Occupation: Yarn Winder

Name: Jean Caroll
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Gender: Female
Where born: Houser, Renfrewshire
Occupation: Scourer

Registration district: Paisley High Church
Civil Parish: Paisley High Church
Town: Paisley
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Buck Land

William Lochard 69 - worsted weaver, born Paisley
Jean Caroll 50
Janes Caroll 50


There's also:

Name: Marcher Carll
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Pottcham, Renfrewshire
Occupation: Chanill Dinggett
(great transcription job on this one all round)

James Wane 66
Helen Rescher 23
Marcher Carll 22


In 1861, there's:

Name: Rosina Carroll
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relationship: Servant
Where born: Dumbarton, Dumbartonshire

Registration district: Johnstone
Civil Parish: Paisley Abbey
Town: District of Johnstone
County: Renfrewshire

I'm an idiot, you put the birth info in the subject line, sorry!

Here she is in 1861:


Name: Elisabeth Carle
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Carle
Where born: Gomock, Renfrew

Registration district: Gourock
Civil Parish: Inverkip
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Mckellars Cottage

Mary Carle 29
Gosina Carle 7 - this will be Rosina as above
Elisabeth Carle 6
Rebecca Gordon 60

Thanks, both Helen (to whom I've replied, via mailbox) and JaneyCanuck - you've both done a power of work on this, and I'm very grateful to you!

Yes, I agree that Ancestry's transcriptions sometimes seem to have been done by uneducated chimps or something, always good for a laugh - but 'Marcher Carll the Chanill Dinggett' really takes the biscuit!!
Doubt if he's one of mine, but I almost wish he was!

Rebecca Gordon was the widowed mother of Mary Donelly/McDonald, who was, in turn, the mother of Rosina (born c 1853/4) and Elizabeth. (c 1854/5)
Mary was married (1852) to Peter Carroll, who died 23 November 1858. Both Mary and Peter had been born in Ireland. They had also had two sons - Peter (1856) and John (1858) but, as far as I 've been able to make out, they must have died in infancy (although there is a very vague chance that John may have been raised by relatives,possibly because Mary was nursing a dying husband ) The marriage + births of all the children took place in Inverkip(Gourock)

I can trace both Mary and Rosina through censuses, up to their death entries, and the same with William Thomson and the two daughters, Mary & Janet.
The main problem is this missing death entry for Elizabeth - or some other explanation as to what became of her. She was my g-granny, and it really bugs me to have mislaid her like this!
Janice

He does come close to taking the biscuit -- but there are whole threads here about others that at least match him! Although none had such exotic occupations, I suspect. My personal favourite finds are Francis Pukes Montoger and Lemon Balls, I think. Other than Mary Piss (who wasn't even the wife of the Mr Pix in question, but of someone else) ... and I won't tell you what Mercy Fricker became, but if you can guess, you'll imagine she must have been rather popular. ;) And you can also imagine what Ancestry does with the name Denis ...

Anyhow, I was hoping that the date/place of birth info might find Elizabeth in later censuses even if she was hiding under another partner's surname, but no luck with that. I'm sure you've searched thoroughly at SP for her death.

Marcher Carll -- in all seriousness, now -- what I neglected to include was that he was in Paisley High Church in 1871, which is how my search ran across him. It might be worth having a look at the image, at SP, just to see who he really was and whether he might in fact be related. And then maybe take pity on him and fix it at Ancestry. ;)

In 1861, Gosina Carle shows as born 1854, Gomock, Renfrew.

In 1871, her place of birth is given as Dumbarton, Dumbartonshire. Any idea why? -- Or -- did I light on the wrong one?

Name: Rosina Carrel
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relationship: Sister
Where born: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Occupation: Chemiel Noshie
(surely she is related to Marcher!)

Registration district: Greenock Middle
Civil Parish: Greenock Middle
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 6 William St

Tereen Eskey 30 - born Greenock
Rosina Carrel 28
Helen Crasley 8 - daughter of Tereen
Patrick Halligan 11 - son of Tereen


I'm just wondering whether Gourock might get itself mistranscribed as Greenock, but this person doesn't seem to be in the right place to be yours.

Hi,
I just had to find out about Marcher Carll so eventually found the original on SP and it IS very difficult to read but

Matthew Coats... occupation is Chemist and Druggist... place of birth is Pollockshaws

James Wane...is Janet Paul and Helen Rescher is Helen Ritchie

Well, that rules out Marcher, anyhow! Shall I fix 'em at Ancestry? I'll look again, and if you didn't do that, Aileen, I'll go ahead and do it. It may help somebody someday!

Not that it makes a difference but I think this is her 1871 census

Name: Elizabeth Carroll
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Greenock, Renfrewshire
Registration Number: 567/2
Registration district: Gourock
Civil Parish: Inverkip
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 1 Springhill
Occupation: Servant
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 23
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1871_100
Household Members:
Name Age
Janet Connell 76
Jane Miller 40
Elizabeth Carroll 16

Is it possible Elizabeth was born in Greenock then, or is that likely a mistranscription? The 2nd Rosina Carrel I was looking at in 1871 says born Greenock as well. But nah, the family info doesn't match. Unless Ancestry got that wrong too.

Did Rosina marry? If she did when? Was Elizabeth a witness at her wedding? Who signed Mary Carroll's death cert. Just trying to narrow down the time frame because there are so many Elizabeth Thomsons.

Regards

Catherine

Hi, folks - thanks for all the interest and helpful suggestions - very much appreciated.
(Mind you, must say I'm disappointed that Marcher Carll the Channill Dinggett isn't one of mine, after all!)
There was definitely another family around using similar names for children, including (from memeory) another Elizabeth Carroll of similar age - I've never quite got around to seeing if they slot in somewhere.
I think that the Rosina in Dumbarton must a be a different , as she was born c 1843, and my Rosina was more likely born c 1853 or 54. I had understood them to have been born in either Gourock or Inverkip - which is where the parents were married, and where the next two children (post-1855) were born.
However, Greenock is just along the road, and was where both Peter Carroll and Mary Donnelly were living in the 1851 census, prior to their marriage.
No baptismal entries have been found for either Rosina or Elizabeth - it's possible that they were baptized in the catholic church, but parents appear to have married in C of S, as did both the girls ('according to the forms of the established C of S')

You're not kidding re 'so many Elizabeth Thomsons', Catherine!! - after several years at this, I had more or less given up because of the common names - suddenly got a surge of energy and thought I'd try again!

Yes, Elizabeth was a witness at Rosina/Roseanne's wedding, but it was in 1870, six years before Elizabeth disappears from the scene, so unfortunately, that doesn't add anything to the mix.
Rosina married John White, and they ended up living in the Garscube Road area of Glasgow. Her mother, Mary was living with them at the time of her death in October 1891, and the informant on her death entry was 'Roseanne White, daughter'.

By the way, my last bit about a possible sighting of John Carroll (younger brother of Rosina and Elizabeth) in a later census, was a red herring - sadly, I found his death, last night - as a 15 month-old infant in May 1859. He died of consumption, as his father had also done, barely three months previously.

I'm going to be away over Christmas, but think once back I may just have to earmark a full day in Register House, and just trawl boringly through every conceivable variant of all the names, dates, ages. Elizabeth has to be there somewhere - unless she ran away and emigrated.....?

Postscript:
Remembered that some Catholic records are now online, checked, and found thew birth/baptism of Rose Carrol, lawful daughter of Peter Carrol and Mary Donelly, born 16th April, bapt 25th by Andrew Black, clergyman. Witnesses James McAnally & Ellen McEonigh (?) Parish of Greenock St Mary's - think they were still living in Gourock, but this must have been their local church? Could account for the slight confusion over the reporting of place of birth in censuses, etc..
Hooray! one found - still no sign of the ever-elusive Elizabeth, though!

Eureka - found the baptisms of all four children of Peter Carroll and Mary Donnelly, all in Greenock St Mary's

Surname is given on the entry for Peter (1856) as Carland
For Elizabeth (1854) it is Caryll,and her mother's surname is also given as Caryll, not Donnelly.
No wonder there is confusion!

My goodness, that looks interesting!

The consumption -- phthisis -- tuberculosis -- was a scourge. The one true thing my gr-grfather ever said about his history was that he'd had a first family killed by a plague (as reported to me a couple of years ago by my uncle, who had known his grandfather as a young child). His first wife died immediately after their child's birth, the child died at age 20, his niece died at age 16, his brother died at age 28ish, all of TB, and likely his three siblings who disappeared between censuses in young childhood did as well, and others in the family whose deaths I haven't found (Hill ...).

Anyhow, lying about age? Noooo. ;)

But now you're going to have to track that Elizabeth Carle / Thomson backwards and forwards to rule her in/out. May I watch?? :D

I checked out that death....doesn't appear to be her this one had the middle name Miller.
Parents given as William and Jane Carle ms Barnes

Birth for the Edinburgh Elizabeth

1864 CARLE ELIZABETH MILLE F GREENOCK OLD OR WEST /RENFREW

Just managed to get back to this, and discovered that I had actually got the death entry for the Edinburgh lady, about 6 years ago ( had forgotten - I've tried so many possibles) and Aileen is right, she's a different lady, unfortunately.
Re consumption/pthisis/TB - most families - in all social groups -lost many members to this, or to bronchitis, even in the 20th C.
My dad had pulmonary TB when I was a child, then I myself had it as a teenager (late 1950s-early 60s), spent 2 and 1/2 years in a sanatorium tucked away in the countryside, and had several operations - strong as a horse since then, mind you!
Thanks for all the interest - keep the suggestions coming, please!