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I am looking for information do to with Michael Herbert Byrnes born c1870-c1880

He came over from Ireland and married Eliza Perry they had 1 child together called "Herbert Matthew Byrnes".

Eliza had 4 children in her first marrage to "Flynn"

What do you wish to know?

Have you bought the marriage cert to find out his father's details?

If not........I would suggest that's the best possible course of action

'Came over'- to where?

And may I also suggest that 'please' would be nice when you ask for people to help you

??

Births Mar 1923 (>99%)
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Byrnes Herbert M Perry Camberwell 1d 1370

Hi thank you both for your reply's.

RE: Flick;
Hi Flick, sorry for not including my manners in my original post. I was trying to find out where he was born in ireland and then his parents and sibling details. If i can find his place of birth that would be amazing.

RE: PaulaW;
Hi Paula, thank you for your reply. I only signed up to the platinum account today and am finding it hard to find any information.

I do not know what the 1d 1370 means sorry. But Byrnes Herbert M Perry Camberwell could be 2 things

Herbert Matthew Byrnes(mothers maiden name: Perry)
or his dad
Michael Herbert Byrnes

Im not sure what order the names go.

Thanks agin for your help

David

1d 1370 is the reference number for the register held at GRO (ie, General Records Office)

Paula got that information from www.freebmd.org.uk

......... this is THE site to use to find bmds (births, marriages and deaths) from the start of registration up until, currently, ca 1950.


It is a free site ..... and ti is the one that we all use to find bmd information ........ GR is literally uselses for such as they just direct you to the index!


Now, you use this information to buy the certificate ..... there is no way in which to see the actual certificate on the web .............. that is, unless you happen to be lucky enough to have an ancestor born in London during the period that have been put onto ancestry ..... ie, ca 1761 to about 1910 ......... but even then, not every parish has been incldued.


The place to buy the certificate is www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/


They charge £9.25

Never, ever, pay any more than that! Several sites will say that you can order certificates through them, including GR, BUT they all charge much much more.





Byrnes Herbert M Perry Camberwell


means Herbert M Byrnes, mmn Perry, born Camberwell in the March quarter 1923




Thirdly, if you had asked anyone, they would have told you that GR is not the best place to find information, nor is it the easiest.


The value of GR is on these boards ....... where you have members helping members!




sylvia

Hi Sylvia, Thank you so much for the information you have provided, i will take it on board when searching.

Thanks again

Dave

David the freebmd details look confusing when you're not used to the formation.

I'll separate it out for you
Surname, Christian N. mother's MN, District - Ref No.

Births Mar 1923
Byrnes Herbert M - Perry - - Camberwell - 1d 1370

Only entires after 1911 show the mother's maiden name.

There doesn't appear to be a marriage on freebmd.............was Eliza Irish?

1901 AND 1911 Irish censuses are free on line..............

Google for website link............

Do you know when Michael died?

I wondered about this one.......in view of the birth reg'n

Name: Michael Byrnes
Death Registration Month/Year: 1925
Age at death (estimated): 43
Registration district: Camberwell
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 556

This is the son's death

Name: Herbert Matthew Byrnes
Birth Date: 22 Dec 1922
Death Registration Month/Year: 1982
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Tyne and Wear
Volume: 2
Page: 0448

Thank you Flick,

The last 2 entries you posted our correct. this is what i have so far;

Herbert Matthew Byrnes
Born: 22/Dec/1922
Died: 14/Apr/1982 (Aged: 59)

His father is what i am looking for "Michael Herbert Byrnes" and you have found his death registration which is correct, he died when my father was 2 or 3.

What i am struggling with is that i know Michael was Irish but i cannot find a Birth or Marrage for Eliza which makes me think the same as you, that possible they both came over from ireland (possible together). I cannot even find a marrage for Eliza to "Mr. Flynn" which makes it more likely

Eliza was married before she met Michael to a man with the surname "Flynn" and they had 4 or 5 children together. I know one of her children with him was called James Flynn.

But thats were im stuck.

Thank you so much for your help on the matter, i do really appreciate it

Regards,
Dave

So, you know from the death reg'n that Michael was born 1881/2 - assuming that his age as given was accurate.

The cert would tell you his occupation, which may - or may not - help with your search.

I'm guessing that you haven't yet looked at the 1911 Irish census.........

This is the only result for the name with (assumed) correct age

Residents of a house 3 in Reaskmore (Eyrecourt, Galway)

Byrnes Michael 70 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmer Cannot Read - Married - - - -
Byrnes Margaret 70 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Galway - Read and write - Married - 40 7 6
Byrnes Peter 31 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Byrnes Michael 29 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Byrnes Brigid 19 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Galway - Read and write


Unfortunately, the Irish census seems never to include any info about second forenames/initials

But - check for yourself on 1901 and 1911

www.census.nationalarchives.ie

I haven't a clue about Irish bmd info - or access thereto, but I do know from reading various threads on these boards that Irish records are notoriously difficult to get at.

I can only suggest that you google Irish bmd and see if there is anything available online.

I've checked the England/Wales 1911...........he isn't on that.

David...Have you considered Michael may not actually have been born in Ireland ...The "Herbert" Christian (or possible 2nd surname) is one not found often ...have you considered this one
1881

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Michel Dray BYRNES Head M Male 38 Dublin Actor
Eliza Jane BYRNES Wife M Female 37 Windsor, Berkshire, England
George BYRNES Son Male 15 Chelsea, Middlesex, England Wood Engraver (Artist)
Walter BYRNES Son Male 14 Chelsea, Middlesex, England Steel Engraver
Frederick BYRNES Son Male 4 Chelsea, Middlesex, England
**Herbert BYRNES** Son Male 3 Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Hannah BYRNES Daur Female 2 Chelsea, Middlesex, England
George SHERBORNE Grandfather W Male 64 Windsor, Berkshire, England None


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Source Information:
Dwelling 8 Bow Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341071
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0329 / 38
Page Number 4

I do not have other Cenus to check but maybe some the other childrens names may be familiar to you.
Aslo note there is a 10 year age gap between Walter and Fred.....

Thanks Eringobragh1916 but they were definatly came from ireland.

Ive came to a problem with the Irish Census

In the 1901 Census Michael Herbert Byrnes was 17 which would make him born 1884

HOWEVER

in the 1911 Census(which wasnt actually taken until 1926) he was 29 which would make him born 1897 UNLESS in 1926 when the census was taken they asked who lived there in 1911 and age at the time.?? anyone know more about the 1911 irish census?

and in the 1901 census there surname is down as "BURNS" however in 1926(1911 census) theywere down as "BYRNES"

regards

David I am a bit confused here...What makes you think the Irish Census wasn't taken until 1926..?
The 1911 was taken 2 April 1911..What exactly is "your problem" with the Irish Census and what more do you want to know...
I have yet to locate Michael H Byrnes (Burns) 1901 in Ireland...where did you find him...

David the 1911 census was taken in 1911, the 1926 census was taken in 1926, there 2 separate census.
Is this the family your talking about, but his middle name not listed on the census

Residents of a house 3 in Reaskmore (Eyrecourt, Galway)
Show all information
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Burns Michael 52 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmer Cannot read or write - Married -
Burns Margaret 45 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Wife Read and write - Married -
Burns Peter 18 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Not Married -
Burns Michael 17 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Not Married -
Burns Patrick 14 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Scholar Read and write - Not Married -
Burns Bridget 10 Female Daughter Roman Catholic



Residents of a house 3 in Reaskmore (Eyrecourt, Galway)
Show all information
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Byrnes Michael 70 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmer Cannot Read - Married - - - -
Byrnes Margaret 70 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Galway - Read and write - Married - 40 7 6
Byrnes Peter 31 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Byrnes Michael 29 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Galway Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Byrnes Brigid 19 Female Daughter Roman Catholic

Hi, Eringobragh1916.

1901 Michael(Head) was 52
1911 Michael(Head) was 70

Same problem with his wife and children, none of the ages match, the closest was Bridget(bridgid) who was 10 in 1901 and 19 in 1911.

Maura
That is indeed the right family but as mentioned above ive become confised due to the ages.

Regards,
David

Please excuse my error. I have just re-read about the 1911 census and it was taken April 1011 i was getting mixed up with the 1921 census which was delayed until 1926 due to the Irish war of Independence

Regards

This problem still confuses me

1901 Michael(Head) was 52
1911 Michael(Head) was 70

David...The ages on the Census are not accurate at the best of times certainly for the elder members of the family...so I wouldn't dwell on it to much...but what evidence do you have to connect to this paticular Burns/Byrnes family