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My husbands G-father Percy James Brooks was born in Gorleston in 1900 his parents are listed as Elizabeth Brooks (Formerly Brooks) & Christopher Charles Brooks. In the 1901 Census Percy and Elizabeth (and 4yr old Wilfrid) are listed as living in Gorleston and she is listed as married but search as I might I can find no trace what so ever of Percy's father (no census-birth-marriage- death).
To complicate matters for some reason (unknown to us) at his marriage in 1917 not only had Percy James changed his name to Percy James Day but he listed his father as Christopher James Day - deceased.
I can think of no way in which I can trace him any further....can anyone at all help or does anyone have any mention of any of them in their family trees? its such a dead end that I just have no idea at all how to proceed....and before you ask Percy his wife and all but one of his children are dead and the one that's alive has no idea at all.....Help :-)

which name is given for his father on his birth cert?

i'd guess his mother had married mr Day while he was quite young

Did Percy marry in the Norfolk area?. Trying to establish that the family were still living there.

It is possible Elizabeth put herself as married to another Brooks when she really wasnt married at all. What was the occupation of Christopher Charles Brooks from Percys birth cert?

Later Percy married as Day. It might be because his mother told him his fathers name or as Minnie said Elizabeth married Christopher James Day . Sometimes names were made up because people were ashamed of not having a fathers name.

Are you able to look for Percys baptism?

Have you tried to get the birth cert for Wilfred to see fathers name on that? I see it has "E" for middle name but this is registered Norfolk
Name: Wilfred Charles Brooks
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Flegg
County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 42
OR this one registered in Wiltshire the next county to where Elizabeth comes from
Name: Wilfred Ernest Brooks
Year of Registration: 1897
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Highworth
County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 35

Thanks for all the help to answer some questions...

Name for father on Percy's Birth Cert is - Christopher Charles Brooks

Christopher's profession was given as Commercial Traveller

Percy's brother Wilfrid Ernest Day - Born in Ipswich (according to the census 1901) we are ordering a birth certificate to see what his mum put on his cert as the name of his dad.

I must admit I was suspicious that she might have been an unmarried mother BUT she might have had one child out of wedlock but it seems rather unusual given the times to have had 4 children over a 9 year period without being married...but you never know :-)

Also Percy Married Caroline Grinnell in Shoreditch in London in 1917.

I am trying to build up a tree for Elizabeths Family in Queen Camel in Somerset at least I have that bit I can do :-)

I have now uploaded my Tree as a gedcom document which may help if others have any ideas on how to look further.....

Thanks again

Do you have any idea if any of the children were in the forces in WW1, as records may help.

For info -- searching at

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

for any marriage

surname: brooks
given name: christopher
spouse's given name: elizabeth
1880 to 1910

the only result is:

Marriages Dec 1901
BROOKS Christopher George E. Preston 2b 793
PEARSON Elizabeth Mary E.Preston 2b 793
(in Sussex)

Marriages Mar 1893
>> Brooks Elizabeth Norwich 4b 196
?? Day Edward Elliott Norwich 4b 196
Manthorpe Esther Ann Norwich 4b 196
Newton William Lee Norwich 4b 196


She could have married Day and been estranged from him while having children with Mr. Brooks.

This could have made it rather difficult to name the father on the children's birth certificates. Christopher Charles could have been the father's given names, with Brooks her birth surname under which the children were registered.

I was struck by the Charles in both the father's name on Percy's birth certificate and the Wilfred Charles birth registration, since I see that Flegg is just a couple of miles north of Great Yarmouth, and Gorleston is a suburb of Great Yarmouth now, just a couple of miles south of the centre.

However, I have now seen that Wilfred registered in Flegg is in Repps in 1901 as a nephew in a presumably unconnected household.

On the marrage entries I am rather daft so dont understand what/how you have written it down.

Are you saying an Edward elliott Day got married in Norwich in1893?

As far as I know none of the children were in the war....Percy my husbands grandfather never mentioned being in the war at all so we guess not.

Two marriages are shown on that particular page in that volume for Norwich in March 1893.

The GRO index didn't start indicating who married whom until mid-1911. All we know is:

Edward Elliott Day married either Elizabeth Brooks or Esther Ann Manthorpe

and

Elizabeth Brooks married either Edward Elliott Day or William Lee Newton

Only the certificate for Brooks or Day will tell which one they married.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look possible to identify the couples on the 1901 census, e.g. to find a William Newton married to an Esther who would definitely be the people from that list. So the only way to know who married whom would be to order the certificate for one of them.

It's *possible* that's your Elizabeth marrying Day -- rightish place, rightish time. A bit of a straw to grasp at. ;)

What I'm not clear on is whether/how you know for sure that Elizabeth's birth surname was Brooks. You mention doing a family tree for her family in Queen Camel, but without confirmation of her father's name, e.g., I'm wondering how you do that.

Queen Camel is in Wincanton registration district, and no Elizabeth Brooks birth was registered there 1870-1875.

re number of children born out of wedlock


My g grandfather's sister had at least 5 children without being married between about 1857 and 1873. Her mother seems to have helped raise them.


Doesn't seem to have been as unusual as we tend to think!



sylvia

reading your thread with interest, i just wanted to say too, that i have 2 g aunts and a grandmother and gg grandmother ( not all from the same family i hasten to add!) that had children out of wedlock. i think it was more common than we are led to believe, i wonder what they would thinknow if they knew we were uncovering all those secrets! good look with the search
kimberley

Hi Kathryn,

I've had a quick look at Eliza* b Que* Cam* on the census; there is an Elizabeth Brooks whose father remarries before 1891 - she is born 1866 and loses several years when she appears in 1891 with her sister's family in Newington (her brother in law is a baker):

Name: Elizabeth Brook
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Sister-in-law
Gender: Female
Where born: Somerbetshire, Queen Camel

Civil Parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Mary Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Brook 23 (image is Brooks)
Annie M Wilson 1
Elizabeth Wilson 11
George Wilson 37
John B Wilson 7
Mary M Wilson 13
Susan Wilson 33 b Queen Camel

Marriage?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1881
BROOKS Susan Bethnal Green 1c 644
KING Catherine Bethnal Green 1c 644
PROCTER Charles Henry Bethnal Green 1c 644
Wilson George Bethnal Green 1c 644

I wonder if the Christopher is simply Saint Christopher, the patron saint of travellers?

Hi Kathryn,

I struggled with Esther Manthorpe - you'd think with a name like that, she would be findable!

I've had a little more luck with Edward Elliott Day - there is one who was b 1863 in Boughton under Blean (Faversham registration district) to Peter Day and Frances Elliott who married in 1852 - but he seems to use Edwin Day on the census and shows no sign of becoming a commercial traveller.

Ivy your a gem :-) I have been searching and searching for her in the 1991 cencus and not one bit of luck and you go and find her :-)

Elizabeth age was always a bit wooley acording to living elderly relatives ( she claimed birth years from 1866 to 1875!) and she was born a Brooks thats why I have researched her in Queen Camel in Somerset....a tiny little village to say the least I have built up a tree for all of the Brooks family in the village (more of a hamlet really) and elizabeths sister was called Susan :-)
And guess what when she went to live in Gorleston she opened a bakers/confectioners/sweetshop!!!! That was confirmed care of the 1901 census :-)

Now as for this erant "husband" heaven alone knows!

I have updated my family tree with this info....still looking and we are hoping to go to Gorleston for the day this summer and I will see what I can find....any pointers on looking for a baptisim for Percy ?