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iknow HARRY BATES, his wife and daughter, and his sister EDITH emigrated to CANADA, in 1923, i know the dates they sailed and the dates they arrived HARRY spent his first night in CANADA,in QUEBEC in sept 1923. his wife,daughter, and sister.
arrived in december 1923.all three were called EDITH BATES.but the daughter was know as MAMIE
i can't find out where they went from there, if they stayed in CANADA where did the live, or did they go on to the USA, where there were, othere,family ties.does anyone know how i can trace them, when they died,any family they had and if they had othere children , or who the two unmarried EDITH'S married,i do know HARRY went there with the intention of doing farming,and the sister EDITH had worked as a domestic in ENGLAND, all the family were born in BRADFORD YORKSHIRE

Hi Brian
3 Edith Bates were travelling together back to England from Canada Ages of the Ediths 27--32--9
This is the "passanger List " index for Edith age 9 --are these thr right ones for you--I don't know if they went back though.

It says on the image they were going to 94 Chatham street Undercliffe, Bradford ( Not sure of the street name but looks like Chatham !!)

Name: Edith Bates Bates
Birth Date: abt 1919
Age: 9
Port of Departure: Montréal, Québec, Canada
Arrival Date: 29 Jun 1928
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ports of Voyage: Quebec
Ship Name: Montclare
Search Ship Database: View the 'Montclare' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific Steamship Line
Official Number: 145964

All the best
Barbara

If they did return to England you're in luck, Brian, because records here in Canada after the early 1900s are pretty much inaccessible to the public, because of privacy laws.

Ginny's US finds certainly put a wrench in it. Did he end up in England after enlisting during WWI and marry there, and go back to the US, then back to England to get his wife and daughter, then to Canada ...??

Possibly -- because as a WWI veteran and still a British subject, if he was that, he would have been eligible for a land grant as a farmer. But a lot of people who came here intending to farm didn't. My grandfather was one of them. Went out west to farm, that lasted a very short time, ended up back here in Ontario where there were cities and jobs and such.

I wonder whether Harry had died in Canada and that's why his wife and daughter returned to England?

Ancestry has Ontario death records up to 1934:
http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=8946

There's no Harry Bates in that database.

Nor in Manitoba:
http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php
(one Harry Bates, completely different stats, died 1908)

Saskatchewan doesn't have deaths after 1917 searchable yet:
http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/ListView.php

No remotely similar person in British Columbia deaths:
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-1DDA34A/gbsearch/Births,Marriages,Deaths

And Alberta doesn't have on-line search facilities.

Not much help I'm afraid!

Edith Jr's birth


Births Jun 1918
Bates Edith M Coulson Bradford 9b 159


Maybe her marriage?

Name: Edith M Bates
Spouse: Harry Hinchliffe
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1939
Registration district: Bradford
Registration county (inferred): Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume Number: 9b
Page Number: 39


There are two births in Bradford with those surnames after that date.

There are several Harry Hinchliffe-s born 1910-1920ish in trees here at GR.

That's what I wondered - if it was while he was stationed during WWI?

As far as the Cdn land grant though, I rethought that ... if he'd been in the US military, he wouldn't really have qualified (my grandfather was in the UK military). He might still have emigrated for that reason anyway.

There was another child born in Bradford in 1919 who unfortunately died in 1920. It doesn't add up really well, but the coincidences in all the info you found are really just too much to be coincidences. ;)

Brian - did you not get the memo about replying in the thread, not by private message?! ;)

Click the purple Reply button up top to open the box for adding a message. Otherwise, the others of us have to go to our inboxes, fetch your info, come back here and paste it in. Here it is.

(Oh, and white space helps *enormously* for reading it -- just hit the Enter key twice when you finish a thought, as I've done when I copied your message here.)



New message to Janey thanks for your message, i have found out , that all three EDITH'S did return to ENGLAND in JUNE 1928.

but all three return to CANADA again, on 28/09/1928.i can't find any sign of the daughter, returning to ENGLAND again, to marry in 1939, although her full name was EDITH MAY, so it fits in with the 1939 marriage to HARRY HINCHLIFFE.

all the BATES'S except wife EDITH were born in BRADFORD,YORKSHIRE ENGLAND. wife EDITH was born in GOOLE YORKSHIRE ENGLAND. all four lived in BRADFORD up to 1923. i will have to get a copy of the BATES/HINCHLIFFE marriage to see if it is the right person



I think that's about the best we could recommend - that you get that certificate, which should answer that question once and for all!

I had a look and the two children of that marriage (the ones who seem to be of that marriage, that is) aren't in trees here.

If it turns out that it is your Edith, it might be relatively easy to track down the children's marriages (they're both girls) and kids and find somebody among them in the telephone book or on the electoral roll.

So I'd do that and then come back here and add a message to let us know whether that's the right person, and we can go off in pursuit of family members.

What's all this brouhaha, Ginny?

"Hang on...theres no evidence to say Harry was in Canada. Maybe Canada"

Maybe Canada ... wasn't to his taste? ;)



Oh duh, Ginny, forgive me - I just looked back and saw you already mentioned that 1939 marriage. By the time I read, you'd come up with all the US info already, and I got fixated on that. ;)

That's possible -- that they landed in Quebec City en route to Pennsylvania. But it's really an odd way around. New York City would be a far more direct route. They departed from Montreal when they returned to England ...

Brian, do you know anything about the rest of Harry's family - parents, siblings? I don't think you've said what your connection is with him. Or is it with Edith?



(What's all this brouhaha?
Brouhaha?
Brouhaha!
Just a bit from an old Firesign Theatre album that became a sort of figure of speech in my circle a long time ago. ;) But goodness, "brouhaha" predates me!)

harry and sister edith were my grandfathers brother and sister,

there parents were GEORGE HENRY BATES born in huddersfield
and ROSER CHAMBERS born in NORFOLK (correct spelling )

there siblings were ARTHUR (1882 ), ALFRED (1883 ) ( my grandfather),
ELIZABETH (1886),GEORGE(1888),WILLIAM (1890),JOHN(1893)

all of the children born in BRADFORD, YORKSHIRE, ENGLAND

HARRY'S wifes maiden name was COULSON

Aha! There you are.

So was the 1901 batch that Ginny was looking at

George Bates 37
Selina Bates 40
John S Bates 15
Jesse Bates 8
Harry Bates 6

a totally coincidental George and Harry and not yours at all?

That would solve that! *Those* Bates-s went to the US. How annoying of them to be walking around looking like your Bates-s!

Yup - 1911:

BATES ROSER 1862 49 Bradford Yorkshire West Riding
BATES GEORGE 1857 54
BATES HARRY 1895 16
BATES EDITH 1901 10

Phew! See how much it helps to give all the info *first*?

So I do surmise that Harry was given a land grant in Canada as a WWI veteran -- but I'm afraid that puts us no farther ahead, since my searches for a death came up empty.

It is very possible that the women visited England and went back to Canada. I think the 1939 marriage cert is the best option available for trying to determine whether Edith Jr stayed in England.

Aha. So in 1923 Harry was in Ottawa and in 1928 he was in Hamilton (near Toronto).

No farming out west for him, then. People who were coming to Canada to farm in the 1920s were not destined for Ontario -- by then, Ontario was a modern urbanized place. Farms, yes -- but not going free or cheap. You wouldn't come to Canada to improve your lot in life and plan to farm in Ontario, since farmland would be as out of your reach here as in England.

As I was saying -- not an uncommon pattern. Same as my grandparents!

Now for Edith returning to England in 1948. Whether she stayed, and whether Harry was still living, will be the questions.

i think maybe EDITH came home for a holiday in 1948 as i have found a EDITH aged 54 returning to NEW YORK. from SOUTHAMPTON in july 1948
she gave a BRADFORD address, which i will try to check out

if this is the right person, i think they must of done well,
as she was travelling on THE QUEEN ELIZABETH

Well, there are 34 listings for the surname Bates in Hamilton, Ontario -- you could try sending out a mass mailing!

http://www.whitepages.ca

Seriously - no harm in trying. ;)


... Oh, oops, if he had only one child, a daughter (as it seems from the travel records), then his descendants won't be named Bates ... Dang.

the departure date is given as 30/07/1948, from southampton

it only says housewife, it does say her country of permanant residence
as U.S.A

i have found out that, EDITH, born 1894, HARRY'S wife
was still alive and living in CANADA in 1971

Got a bit lost with this thread - course that won't stop me from posting.

There is a Harry Bates filing a homestead claim - I think the patent wasn't granted.
Course, I don't know if this guy is your Harry.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/western-land-grants/index-e.html

Part Section Township Range Meridian
NW 2 7 2 W3
Reference:
Volume:874
Folio:146
Microfilm reel number:C-6639
Names:Harry Bates

Vol 874 covers
874 Aug. 14, 1920 - Aug. 27, 1920 C-6638-C-6639

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/post-offices/001001-100.01-e.php
Limerick Sec.18, Twp.8, R.2, W3

Limerick is a small town in Sasketchewan, abt 80 m SW of Regina, say 12 m W of Assiniboia and 45 m N of US border.
The claim is 8 m S and 4 m E of Limerick.

to everyone who has sent me all this very useful information

many, many thanks