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Hi all

I am trying to find the parents of a Charles Frederick bate born 22/11/1900 died 1963. from birmingham he married Doris Kinam in 1936. on the marriage certificate, it says his father is Thomas bate, brasscaster (deceased. so thomas was dead by 1936. i found a Thomas Bate in birmingham, a brasscaster in the 1891 census in birmingham, with a son thomas aged 5 and wife ellen. i am wondering if this is the same one, and if anyone has anymore inforamtion going backwards. appreciate it very much

thanks

Nick

1901 England Census
about Charles Bate
Name: Charles Bate
Age: 4 months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: B'ham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: St George
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:102 Barr St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Bate 41 brass Caster
Ellen Bate 59 should read age 39
Tom Bate 15 Brass worker
Eva Bate 6
Ada Bate 4
William Bate 2
Charles Bate 4 months
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2840; Folio: 174; Page: 6.

1881

Name: Thomas Bate
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 18 Bartletts Buldgs Key Hill
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Brass Caster

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Adams 65 >>>>>Pistol Maker, born Darlaston, Staffordshire
Ann Adams 68 >>>>>>>>Born Coleshill, Warwickshire, England


Samuel Adams 11 >>>>>>>>>Born B'ham, grandson
Thomas Bate 24
William Bate 19 >>>>>>>>>>>Brass ... Fitter, born B'ham






Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3004; Folio: 82; Page: 22; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341718.

Cassy

1911 Census Household Transcript

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
BATE, THOMAS HEAD MARRIED M 51 BRASSCASTER WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, ELENIOR WIFE MARRIED 26 F 49 WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, THOMAS SON SINGLE M 15 BRASSCASTER WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, EVA DAUGHTER SINGLE F 16 WARHOUSE ASSISTANT WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, ADA DAUGHTER SINGLE F 14 WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, WILLIAM SON SINGLE M 12 WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, CHARLES SON SINGLE M 10 WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM
BATE, HENRY SON SINGLE M 7 WARICK'S BIRMINGHAM


BATE CHARLES (RG14PN17214 RG78PN1059 RD371 SD1 ED9 SN115)
Address 62 NINEVEH ROAD HANDSWORTH STAFFORDSHIRE County Staffordshire
District West Bromwich Subdistrict Handsworth
Enumeration District 9 Parish Handsworth

Possible marriage for Thomas & Ellen/Elinior/Eleanor


Marriages Jun 1885
>>>>>>>>>>>>BATE Thomas Birmingham 6d 141
Edwards George Henry Birmingham 6d 141
>>>>>>>>>>>>Fussell Eleanor Hannah Birmingham 6d 141
Grant Harriet Birmingham 6d 141
Strong William Birmingham 6d 141

BIRTH

Ellinor Hannah Fussell
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 206

1871 England Census
about Elinor Fussell
Name: Elinor Fussell
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederic
Mother's Name: Cardine
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Household schedule number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederic Fussell 37 Head, Jeweller
Cardine Fussell 39 wife s/b Caroline born Stourbridge
>>>>>>>>>>>>Elinor Fussell 9 daughter
Arthur E Fussell 3 son
Wallace Fussell 4 months son
Hannah Jones 50 Aunt born Stourbridge, Laundress
Eliza Jones 19 Niece born Birmingham, Machinist
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3133; Folio: 6; Page: 10; GSU roll: 839586

address 44 Norton St

1881 England Census
about Ellen Fussell
Name: Ellen Fussell
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick
Mother's Name: Catherine
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Bartletts Buldgs Key Hill
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Electro Plate Finisher

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Fussell 48 Jeweller
Catherine Fussell 50
>>>>>>>>>>>Ellen Fussell 19 Electro Plate Finisher
Arthur Fussell 14
Wallace Fussell 10
Ada Fussell 8
James Fussell 4
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3004; Folio: 82; Page: 22; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341718.

Thomas Bate was living at 18 Bartlets Bldgs, Hey Hill

1861 England Census
about Frederick Fussell
Name: Frederick Fussell
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
>>>>>>>>>>Frederick Fussell 25 Jeweller
Caroline Fussell 28
Eliza Fussell 8
Hannah Jones 39 Aunt, unmarried, Laundress
Henry Jones 42 Uncle unmarried, General labourer
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2168; Folio: 88; Page: 6; GSU roll: 542929.

1851 England Census
about Frederick Fussell
Name: Frederick Fussell
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmm, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: St Pancras
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address: 15 Pearl Crescent, St Pancras

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Grays Inn Lane
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 325
Household Members:
Name Age
John Fussell 35 Head, Journeyman goldsmith & Jeweller & tobacconist born Birmingham
Martha Fussell 42 wife born Birmingham
>>>>>>>>Frederick Fussell 15 son, Turners Errand boy born Birmingham
Fanny Fussell 13 born Handsworth Stafford
Patty Fussell 11 born Bloomsbury
Arthur Fussell 9 born Clerkenwell
Joseph Fussell 3 born Clerkenwell
James Hembury 22 Stepson, Watch Springer born Birmingham
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1495; Folio: 529; Page: 61; GSU roll: 87826-87827.

not just plain John......as in 1851 census!

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

MARTHA HEMBURY Pedigree
Female Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: JOSEPH IRENAUS JOHN FUSSELL Family
Marriage:
29 APR 1834 Saint Marys, Handsworth, Stafford, England

Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M098671 1810 - 1825 0426554 Film NONE
M098671 1825 - 1834 0426555 Film NONE
M098671 1834 - 1837 0426556 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

JOSEPH IRENEUS JOHN FUSSELL Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
26 JUL 1815 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JOHN FUSSELL Family
Mother: SUSANNA

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C010723 1813 - 1815 0501834 Film 6900588 Film
C010723 1815 - 1817 0501835 Film NONE
C010723 1818 - 1820 0501836 Film NONE
C010723 1820 - 1822 0502177 Film NONE
C010723 1823 - 1825 0502178 Film NONE
Sheet: 00


siblings

2. CAROLINE FUSSELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 26 JUL 1815 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England
3. SUSANNA FUSSELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 JUN 1821 Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England

OMG ty ty ty ty

that is soooo nice of you to find that out. i had not a clue where to start. other than start my subscription to ancestry.com/co.uk to start searching,
i purchased familytree maker thinking it would let me search stuff, wrong.

that is awesome ty very much

but now i need to go through it, so no going to bed early now for my 4am alarm clock. never mind

heheh

thank you regards nick

Death for Thomas Bate born 1859
Deaths Dec 1921
Bate Thomas age 62 W.Bromwich 6b 844



1861 England Census
about Thomas Bate
Name: Thomas Bate
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Mary A
Gender: male
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:51 Vittoria St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 126
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Bate 45 born Worcestershire, Warehouse man
Mary A Bate 38 born Ashby Leicestershire
George Bate 19 son, Labourer
Elizabeth Bate 11
Esther Bate 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thomas Bate 1
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2166; Folio: 16; Page: 26; GSU roll: 54292



Mary A Bate's name is written on this census as Margaret:-

1871 England Census
about Thomas Bate
Name: Thomas Bate
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: All Saints
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 216
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Bate 48sack maker
Elizabeth Bate 21machine winder
Esther Bate 13 machine winder
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thomas Bate 11sword maker
William T Bate 9 scholar s/b William J Bate
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3129; Folio: 86; Page: 38; GSU roll: 839584.

address:- Key Hill



1881 England Census
about Mary A. Bate
Name: Mary A. Bate
Age: 58
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Relation: Mother in Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashby De La Zouch

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 44 Johnson St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Sack Repairer

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Adams 29Brass Tube Polisher
Esther Adams 23 wife
Mary A. Bate 58 motherinlaw
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3035; Folio: 94; Page: 32; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341725.

Possible marriage for the parents of Thomas:

Marriages Dec 1841
BATE Henry Birmingham 16 415
HOUGH Mary Ann Birmingham 16 415

if you were to purchase this certificate, it should give you their fathers names and occupations. Also witnesses can be very useful too.

1851 England Census
about Henry Bate
Name: Henry Bate
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Newchurch, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:Parish St, Back 50 R, 6

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Bate 35born Newchurch Worcs, Warehouseman
Mary Ann Bate 30
George Bate 9 born Coleshill Warwickshire
Henry Bate 7 born Meriden Warwickshire
Mary Ann Bate 3born Birmingham
Elizabeth Bater 1
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2057; Folio: 310; Page: 4; GSU roll: 332117-332118.



births of Thomas Bate and his siblings:-

Births Mar 1842
BATE George Meriden 16 417

Births Sep 1843
BATE Henry Meriden 16 401

Births Jun 1848
Bate Mary Ann Birmingham 16 335


Births Mar 1850
Bate Elizabeth Birmingham 16 349

Births Dec 1857
Bate Esther Birmingham 6d 137

Births Dec 1859
BATE Thomas Birmingham 6d 195

Births Dec 1861
BATE William Joseph Birmingham 6d 212

.

Christening of Thomas Bate's born (1859) mother Mary Ann Hough:-



IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International
Genealogical Index v5.0
British Isles
Search Results | Download | Print

MARY ANN HOUGH Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
13 AUG 1822 Ashby De La Zouch, Leicester, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: THOMAS HOUGH Family
Mother: ELIZABETH

Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C064501 1814 - 1827 0585295 Film 0883942 Film
C064501 1827 - 1872 0585296 Film NONE
Sheet: 00

Thomas born 1859..............this is his sister Esther Bate born 1857


MARRIAGE Sep 1880
Adams Alexander Aston 6d 38
BATE Esther Aston 6d 381



1881 England Census
about Esther Adams
Name: Esther Adams
[Esther Bate]
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Alexander
Mother's Name: Mary A.
Gender: Female
Where born: Bham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 44 Johnson St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston
ED, institution, or vessel: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Adams 29 Brass Tube polisher
Esther Adams 23
Mary A. Bate 58
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3035; Folio: 94; Page: 32; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341725.


1891 England Census
about Esther Adams
Name: Esther Adams
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham

Civil parish: Whitehaven
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bees
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:88 George St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Whitehaven
Sub-registration district: Whitehaven
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Esther Adams 34
Arthur Adams 10
Eleanor Adams 8
Clara Adams 6 born Glasgow Scotland
Henry Adams 2
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4314; Folio 74; Page 11; GSU roll: 6099424



1901 England Census
about Esther Adams
Name: Esther Adams
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Alexander
Gender: Female
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Workington
Ecclesiastical parish: Workington St Michael
Town: Workington
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Clay St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Workington
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 84
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Adams 49 House, Estate & Insurance Agent
Esther Adams 43 wife
Arthur A J Adams 19 steel works Labourer , born Birmingham
Eleanor M Adams 18 apprentice Dressmaker born Birmingham
Clara Adams 15 born Scotland
Ethel Adams 14 born Sunderland Durham
Henry Adams 12 born Sunderland Durham
Laura Adams 10 born Whitehaven Cumberland
Evelina Adams 8 born Whitehaven Cumberland
George Adams 6 born Hencingham, Cumberland
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4884; Folio: 161; Page: 13.



1911 Census Household Transcript

Name: Relationship to head: Marital Status: Years married: Sex: Age in 1911: Occupation: Where born:
ADAMS, ESTHER HEAD WIDOW F 53 BOARDING HOUSE KEEPER WARWICKSHIRE BIRMINGHAM
ADAMS, HENRY SON SINGLE M 22 MOTOR BOAT DRIVER DURHAM SUNDERLAND
ADAMS, EVELINE DAUGHTER SINGLE F 18 GENERAL SERVANT DOMESTIC CUMBERLAND WHITEHAVEN
ADAMS, GEORGE SON SINGLE M 16 BLACKSMITH'S APPRENTICE CUMBERLAND HENSINGHAM
ASTLEY, WILLIAM BOARDER SINGLE M 29 HAIRDRESSER LANC'S BLACKBURN
ISHERWOOD, WILLIAM BOARDER SINGLE M 17 HAIRDRESSER'S APPRENTICE LANC'S BLACKBURN

ADAMS ESTHERr (RG14PN31612 RG78PN1818 RD581 SD1 ED3 SN146)
Address ASH STREET BOWNESS County Westmorland
District Kendal Subdistrict Ambleside
Enumeration District 3 Parish Bowness on Windemere


Deaths Dec 1903
Adams Alexander age 52 Cockermouth 10b 419



ps:-

To tie it up quite nicely, it would appear that Alexander Adams who married Esther Bate (sister of Thomas & William Bate) is the son of Samuel and Ann Bate with whom Thomas & William Bate were staying on 1881 census listed as "nephew"



1861 England Census
about Alexander Adams
Name: Alexander Adams
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmm, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Adams 45
Ann Adams 28
Samuel Adams 11
Alexander Adams 9
Francis Adams 7
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2154; Folio: 137; Page: 5; GSU roll: 542926.

A thread that is one to have handy:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1162069

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