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I have just got back the marriage cert for relative William Joseph Barnes age 27 occupation Baker to Rose Sophia Clifford 22 Oct 1916 St Pancras........what I didnt know was that I was surprised to see he was a widower when he married. I have the right guy as fathers name/profession ties in.
Can anyone help me find his previous marriage? I am particularly interested in tracing him as he committed suicide in 1928 and I am trying to piece together his life. He was born 1889 Willesden.....I have found him on 1891, 1901 census both times staying with relatives as his mother died after giving birth to him. Havent found him in 1911. Can anyone help find his first marriage/death of his first wife?

try FreeBMD from c1908

poss

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
Barnes William J Clift Willesden 3a 596
Clift Emily C Barnes Willesden 3a 596
Hobbs George F Lee Willesden 3a 596
Lee Daisy M Hobbs Willesden 3a 596

wife Rose, was NOT named on his death cert as informant ........just that there was an inquest

can anyone see who he married on this entry...........i am convinced this is his first marriage

William Joseph Barnes
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Hendon (1837-1947)
County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 435

Stephen, to see who he could have married, click on the page number. There will probably be two women named. He could have married either. The only way to be sure is to buy the marriage cert. You could also try looking for a death for the women between 1908 and 1914.

Oh dear - something wrong with that page number. There should only be four names but there are eight! Five women and only 3 men!

cant seem to find a birth cert for ROSE SOPHIA CLIFFORD C1890, father John Charles clifford occupation collier

Where did you look? There is this one on freebmd:

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Clifford Rose Sophia Swansea 11a 844

sorry potty, was looking in England!

Well,it's not this one:
Marriages Jun 1908
BARNES William Joseph Hendon 3a 435

BULLOCK Helen Caroline Hendon 3a 435

He's a 58 yr old widower,a compositor and father's name is George.

Maureen

Looks like Potty found the correct birth

1901 Wales Census
about Rose Clifford
Name: Rose Clifford
Age in 1901: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Ystradyfodwg
Ecclesiastical parish: Llwynypia St Andrew
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image

Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub-registration district: Ystradyfodwg
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 73
Household Members: Name Age
George Clifford 25 Head
Joyce Clifford 21 wife
Percy Clifford 1 son
John Charles Clifford 35 brother
Ellen Frances Clifford 29 wife
Rose Clifford 10 niece
Stanley Clifford 8 nephew

Is this Rose in 1891:???
1891 Ancestry
Name: Rose Clifford
Age: 8/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Female
Where born: Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Llangyfelach
Ecclesiastical parish: Llangyfelach
Town: Morriston
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Llangyfelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 7

Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Clifford 27
Eliza Clifford 28
Edith Clifford 8
Rose Clifford 8/12
Tom Sleymon 21
Jim Richard 50

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4473; Folio 77; Page 7

Maureen

is there a way of finding out if William Joseph + Rose had any children, they married 1916 and he had died by 1928. Unfortunately nobody seems to have detailed information on Rose Clifford on their tree on either ancestry or genes ....is there a way of finding out if they had any children?

his death cestificate says 'suicide by local gas poisoning'....what would this be?

There's a very easy way to search for births -- to be sure they are the right parents, you still have to get certificates.

You're using FreeBMD surely?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

Just search for

births
surname BARNES
mother's surname CLIFFORD

and you will have a list of possibles.

Since they married in 1916 you can do the same search in the 1916-1983 births index at Ancestry to double-check.

And since he died in 1928, the birth in Willesden in 1917 looks like a good bet, but possibly the only one.

thanks Janey, just found that one!.....maybe the clue I needed