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Shirley
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2 Oct 2022 23:20 |
looking for death of John Charles Edward binnersley. He was born apparently in Shrewsbury but I'm unable to find the birth. He was in Burnley from 1914 as he appeared in the newspaper then. He got married in bucklow Cheshire to Bertha pickles in 1915. His wife Bertha died in 1931 in Burnley. They were both around 28 before they got married. I think he was in the work house in 1938 and 1939 in Burnley. it gives his birth as 24 march 1878 or 24 March 1887. No Idea which is correct as he was supposedly 28 in 1914 while up in court. can anyone find his death which would be on it after 1939 :-)
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nameslessone
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3 Oct 2022 00:41 |
I can’t see a John on freebmd but there is a Charles E Binnersley born in 1887 registered in Atcham which covers Shrewsbury - could this be him?
He is in several trees on Ancestry, non of which have his death. He seems to have been in and out of prison but also had some war service.
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Kay????
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3 Oct 2022 00:59 |
? Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page
Deaths Jun 1954 Binnersley John C 76 Welshpool 8c 300
birth year abt 1878,
birth ,death and marriage can all be in various regions and places.
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Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!
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3 Oct 2022 07:59 |
Several entries for him in the Calendar of Prisoners where he was also known as Charles.
Calendar of Prisoners, 1868-1929
Name: John Charles Edward Binnersley [Charles Binnersley] Trial Age: 24 Birth Date: abt 1886 Trial Date: 6 Jul 1910 Trial Place: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England Occupation: Labourer Charge: Stealing Sentence: 12 months
Rose
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2022 08:52 |
The birth mentioned by Nameslessone was an illegitimate birth:
BINNERSLEY, CHARLES EDWARD - GRO Reference: 1887 J Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 646 Occasional Copy: A
John Charles Binnersley in the 1911 England Census Name: John Charles Binnersley Age in 1911: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885 Relation to Head: Prisoner Gender: Female Birth Place: Shrewsbury, Salop, England Civil Parish: St Mary County/Island: Shropshire Country: England Street Address: His Majesty's Prison, Shrewsbury Marital status: Single Occupation: Coal Miner Hewer Registration District Number: 349 Sub-registration District: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 21-22 Piece: 16088
In 1921 Census:
John Charles Edward Binnersley 1871 Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire
He's with Bertha Binnersley 1886, Bertha Binnersley 1919, Madeleine P Binnersley 1912, and Mary Ann Binnersley 1920.
Births Jun 1912 (>99%) Pickles Madeline Pickles Burnley 8e 317
Births Sep 1919 (>99%) Binnersley Bertha Pickles Burnley 8e 205
Births Sep 1920 (>99%) BINNERSLEY Mary A Pickles Burnley 8e 300
In view of his birth reg, the Ancestry tree(s) which say(s) that his mother was Sarah Maria Belch can't be correct.
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 09:06 |
Have you considered buying a copy of his marriage cert?
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 09:09 |
He was an habitual criminal - offended in many different areas - one record dated 1921 states that he was a native of Pontesbury. I won't post here what he was accused of...................
He was sent to an “Industrial School’ in 1899, under the terms of the Education Act,
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2022 10:11 |
A possible sister?? Just a long shot:
BINNERSLEY, HENRIETTA - GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 637
Henrietta Binnersley in the Shropshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900 Name: Henrietta Binnersley Birth Date: 31 Dec 1883 Baptism Date: 20 Feb 1884 Baptism Place: Shrewsbury, Holy Trinity, Shropshire, England Religion: Anglican Mother: Elizabeth Page number: 29 Reference Number: P251/A/1/4
Can't see a likely unmarried Elizabeth Binnersley in any census in Shropshire. [ EDIT - But see my post on 3 Oct at 20:48. ]
??? Perhaps she was also illegitimate?
Elizabeth Binnersley in the Shropshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900 Name: Elizabeth Binnersley Baptism Date: 14 Nov 1865 Baptism Place: Berrington, Shropshire, England Religion: Anglican Mother: Harriet Binnersley Page number: 58 Reference Number: P28/A/2/2
??? Marriages Mar 1888 (>99%) BINNERSLEY Lizzie Atcham 6a 869 Dax John William Atcham 6a 869
Lizzie Dax in the 1891 England Census Name: Lizzie Dax Gender: Female Age: 26 Relationship: Wife Birth Year: 1865 Spouse: John Wm Dax Child: John E Dax Alice M Dax Florence M Dax Birth Place: Atcham, Shropshire, England Civil parish: St Chad Ecclesiastical parish: St George Residence Place: Shrewsbury, St Chad, Shropshire, England Registration district: Atcham Sub registration district: St Chad ED, Institution or Vessel: 5 Neighbors: Piece: 2112 Folio: 93 Household Members Age Relationship John Wm Dax 33 Head Lizzie Dax 26 Wife John E Dax 4 Son Alice M Dax 2 Daughter Florence M Dax 1 Daughter John Owen 27 Lodger Edwin Jenkins 38 Lodger Sophia Jenkins 5 Lodger
But no pre-marriage children with her in 1891.
According to 1901 census, she was born in Atcham workhouse.
In 1871 , in Shrewsbury, a Harriet Binnersley (Elizabeth's mother?) was sentenced to 4 months for "attempting to conceal the birth of her child".
Another possible sibling to John Charles Edward?? Another very long shot:
BINNERSLEY, GEORGE HENRY - GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 640 Occasional Copy: A
?? George Binnersley in the 1891 England Census Name: George Binnersley Gender: Male Age: 8 Relationship: Waif & Stray [ how sad ] Birth Year: 1883 Birth Place: N Civil parish: Tranmere Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Residence Place: Tranmere, Cheshire, England Registration district: Birkenhead Sub registration district: Tranmere ED, Institution or Vessel: 13 Neighbors: Piece: 2890 Folio: 78
Address: 19 Well Lane, Home for Waifs and Strays.
George Henry Binnersby in the 1901 England Census Name: George Henry Binnersby Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 Relation to Head: Cousin Gender: Male Birth Place: Shropshire, England Civil parish: Shrewsbury St Chad Search Photos: View blank form Ecclesiastical parish: Shrewsbury St George County/Island: Shropshire Country: England Registration district: Atcham Sub-registration district: St Chad ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: Piece: 2540 Folio: 105 Page number: 10 Household schedule number: 59
He's the cousin of John William Binnersley, 22, Shropshire.
Things worked out well for George - he married in 1904, had children, and was still married in 1939; died 1958 Shrewsbury.
I can't find his cousin John William's birth on GRO to see mmn, to try to work out family.
?? Births Jun 1878 (>99%) Binnersley William Atcham 6a 696
Married Frances (Fanny) Evans in 1897 in Atcham; had several children; was in Royal Army Veterinary Corps in WW1; died in Shrewsbury in 1945; probate to Fanny.
Can't see him in 1881 or 1891, unless possibly as a servant (stock feeder) at the Red Lion Inn in Alveley, Shropshire in 1891.
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2022 10:28 |
Re the tree suggesting that Sarah Belch was his mother - on second thoughts that may be correct.
***[ EDIT: NO, not the right family, - see ErikaH's posts below. ] ****
John Binnersley in the 1891 England Census Name: John Binnersley Gender: Male Age: 5 Relationship: Son Birth Year: 1886 Father: John Binnersley Mother: Sarah Binnersley Birth Place: Berrington, Shropshire, England Civil parish: Holy Cross and St Giles Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Cross Residence Place: Holy Cross and St Giles, Shropshire, England Registration district: Atcham Sub registration district: St Mary ED, Institution or Vessel: 22 Neighbors: Piece: 2111 Folio: 67 Household Members Age Relationship John Binnersley 26 Head Sarah Binnersley 27 Wife Thomas Binnersley 9 Son John Binnersley 5 Son Mary Binnersley 3 Daughter Sarah Binnersley 1 Daughter
Can't see any marriage for Sarah and John. Sarah later (1907) married James Farrar, and the daughter Sarah is with them in 1911.
BELCH, HENRY THOMAS - GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 682
BINNERSLEY, MARY ANN mmn BELCH GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 656
BINNERSLEY, SARAH JANE mmn BELCH GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 664
John Charles Edward's registration as Binnersley may have been because Sarah was using her partner's surname, but answered correctly "No" when asked if she was married.
In which case Henrietta and George in my last post aren't his siblings.
****[ But as that family isn't the correct one, Henrietta and George may still be in the running.] ****
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 11:23 |
Name: John Chas. Edward Binnersley Age: 24 Birth Year: abt 1887 Birth Place: Shrewsbury Committal Date: 18 Sep 1911 Committal Place: Port Talbot, Wales Discharge Date: 17 Oct 1911 Location: Swansea Prison
Name: Jno Binnersley Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887 Relation to Head: Scholar Gender: Male Birth Place: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England Civil parish: Everton Ecclesiastical parish: St Benedict County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: South Everton ED, institution, or vessel: Industrial School Certified************************** Piece: 3486 Folio: 125 Page number: 7 Household schedule number: 1
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 11:31 |
BINNERSLEY, RICHARD JOHN BELCH GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 651
The above is 'John' in 1891, and obviously the one picked up on in Ancestry trees
John Binnersley 26 Head Sarah Binnersley 27 Wife Thomas Binnersley 9 Son John Binnersley 5 Son Mary Binnersley 3 Daughter Sarah Binnersley 1 Daughter
There is no record on freebmd of a Binnersley/Belch marriage
BINNERSLEY, MARY ANN BELCH GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 656 BINNERSLEY, SARAH JANE BELCH GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 664
Name: Mary Ann Binnersley Birth Date: 27 Oct 1887 Baptism Date: 8 Nov 1887 Baptism Place: Meole Brace, Shropshire, England Religion: Anglican Father: John Binnersley Mother: Sarah Binnersley Page number: 117 Reference Number: P186/A/2/2
BINNERSLEY, EDITH EMILY BELCH GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 644
Farrar Sarah Maria 1864 — 1921 1921 Census Of England & Wales Atcham, Shropshire, England
Violet Eda Farrar 1907 Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
Edna G Belch 1912 Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
Elizabeth Belch 1890 Pontesford, Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
Gladys Belch 1909 Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
Henry T Belch 1914 Frankwell, Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
Henry Thomas Belch 1882 Minsterley, Shropshire, England St Chad Atcham Shropshire
BELCH, HENRY THOMAS - GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 682
1939 Register 45 Crowmere Road, Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury M.B., Shropshire, England
Sarah M Farrier 23 Jan 1863 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 271 1 Unknown Lillian Marie (Lilian M) Webster (Jarvis) 19 Nov 1920 Female Daily Domestic Servant Single 271 2 Unknown The record for this person is officially closed. Maureen R Hewins (Jarvis) 07 Jun 1932 Female At School Single 271 4 Unknown Patricia D J Hall (Rowe) 28 Feb 1933 Female At School Single 271 5 Unknown The record for this person is officially closed. Dorothy M Husbands (Rowe) 20 Oct 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 271 7
PRIVATE R J BINNERSLEY Service Number: M2/222787 Regiment & Unit/Ship Army Service Corps 820th Coy. Died 15 March 1918 Buried or commemorated at MIKRA BRITISH CEMETERY, KALAMARIA
Full name details from FMP First name(s) Richard John Last name Binnersley Service number M2/222787 Death year 1918 Death day 15 Death month 3
Whoever compiled the Ancestry tree did NOT carry out proper research
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 13:51 |
On 7th April 1915, when discharged from the Army, his age was 32 years 14 days
His military conduct was 'Fair' His conduct as per King's Regulations was 'Bad'
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 14:07 |
BELCH, GLADYS ELIZABETH COLE GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 589
Births Mar 1912 (>99%) BELCH Edna G M Coles Atcham 6a 1099
Births Jun 1914 (>99%) Belch Henry T J Gales Atcham 6a 1113
Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%) Belch Henry T Coles Atcham 6a 1616 Coles Elizabeth Belch Atcham 6a 1616
This child is with Sarah, nee Belch and family in 1911 (adopted)
THOMAS, VIOLET ADA - GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 646
Sarah's birth - just to add the finishing touch
BELCH, SARAH MARIA HOMES GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in ATCHAM Volume 06A Page 693
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ArgyllGran
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3 Oct 2022 14:29 |
OK - so we forget about Sarah Belch / Binnersley and family.
Back to the drawing board!
Possibly back to Elizabeth/Lizzie Binnersley as candidate for his mother.
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 14:33 |
Probably best to get a copy of the 1954 death cert - to see who the informant was
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 14:43 |
The birth posted above for Charles Edward Binnersley in 1887 is actually recorded in the index as BENNERSLEY
Name: Charles Edward Bennersley Registration Date: 1887 Quarter of the Year: Apr-May-Jun Registration Place: Atcham, Shropshire, England Volume: 6a Page: 616
Image on Ancestry
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 14:50 |
UK, Military Discharge Indexes, 1920-1971
Name: J Binnersley Birth Date: 24 Mar 1887 Service Number: D/6074 Rank: Army Other Ranks, Discharges for 1939-1971 Additional Regiment: RWFUS Reference Number: ADH001090947
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 16:38 |
Name: Bertha Binnersley Death Age: 52 Birth Date: abt 1884 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar 1936******************* Registration District: Burnley Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 257
Births Mar 1916 (>99%) Binnersley Alfred Pickles Burnley 8e 245 Births Sep 1919 (>99%) Binnersley Bertha Pickles Burnley 8e 205 Births Sep 1920 (>99%) BINNERSLEY Mary A Pickles Burnley 8e 300 Births Dec 1921 (>99%) Binnersley Florence M Pickles Burnley 8e 271 Births Dec 1923 (>99%) Binnersley William E Pickles Burnley 8e 216 Births Mar 1925 (>99%) BINNERSLEY Eva Pickles Burnley 8e 227
Name: William E Binnersley Death Age: 0 Birth Date: abt 1923 Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec 1923 Registration District: Burnley Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 194
Name: Alfred Binnersley Death Age: 1 Birth Date: abt 1916 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar 1917 Registration District: Burnley Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 392
Burial: 21 Sep 1915 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England Horace Binnersley - Age: 1yr 1mnth Abode: 17a Croft Street Grave: NE3171 Notes: Buried in a Public Grave Gender: M Register: Burials 1914 - 1920, Page 81, Entry 81294 Source: Original Registers Book 11
Burial: 31 Mar 1917 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England Alfred Binnersley - Age: 1yr 2mnths Abode: 17 Croft Street Grave: NE3450 Notes: Buried in a Public Grave Gender: M Register: Burials 1914 - 1920, Page 170, Entry 83769 Source: Original Registers Book 11
Baptism: 8 May 1918 St James, Burnley, Lancashire, England John Binnersley - [Child] of John Charles Edward Binnersley & Bertha Abode: 5 Calder St. Occupation: Laborer O. H. M. S. Godparents: Mary Ellen Wrigley; Bertha Binnersley, mother; Florence Blair Baptised by: B. Winfield Vicar Register: Baptisms 1910 - 1920, Page 86, Entry 683 Source: Original Parish Register
Burial: 18 Nov 1918 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England John Binnersley - Age: 7mnths Abode: 3a Calder Street Grave: NE3631 Notes: Buried in a Public Grave Gender: M Register: Burials 1914 - 1920, Page 244, Entry 85862 Source: Original Registers Book 11
Baptism: 26 Sep 1923 St Peter, Burnley, Lancashire, England William Binnersley - [Child] of John Binnersley & Bertha Born: 14 Aug 1923 Abode: 39 Bridge Street, Burnley Occupation: Coal Miner Baptised by: G. R. Povey Register: Baptisms 1919 - 1943, Page 68, Entry 543 Source: Original Parish Register
Burial: 19 Oct 1923 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England William Edward Binnersley - Age: 2mnths Abode: 39 Bridge Street Grave: NE4474 Notes: Buried in a Public Grave Gender: M Register: Burials 1920 - 1926, Page 182, Entry 92535 Source: Original Registers Book 12
Burial: 29 Dec 1925 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England Eva Binnersley - Age: 7mnths Abode: 118 Briercliffe Road Grave: NE2004 Notes: Buried in a Public Grave Gender: F Register: Burials 1920 - 1926, Page 284, Entry 95410 Source: Original Registers Book 12
Burial: 8 Feb 1936 Burnley Cemetery, Burnley, Lancashire, England Bertha Binnersley - Age: 67yrs Abode: Municipal Hospital Grave: A14474 Gender: F Register: Burials 1933 - 1940, Page 124, Entry 107635 Source: Original Registers Book 14
Admission: 28 Nov 1937 Workhouse, Burnley, Lancashire, England John Binnersley - Born: 24 Mar 1878 More details available: Contact Lancashire Archives Register: Admissions Index Book A-H 1937-1941 Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
Admission: 4 Oct 1938 Workhouse, Burnley, Lancashire, England Mary Ann Binnersley - Born: 5 Aug 1920 More details available: Contact Lancashire Archives Register: Admissions Index Book A-H 1937-1941 Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
Admission: 28 Mar 1939 Workhouse, Burnley, Lancashire, England John Charles Edward Binnersley - Born: 24 Mar 1887 More details available: Contact Lancashire Archives Register: Admissions Index Book A-H 1937-1941 Source: Original Register at Lancashire Archives
The 1937 record showing birth year 1878 is probably a simple mistranscription, or juxtaposition of digits
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 16:49 |
1921 Bertha Binnersley 1886 Todmorden, Yorkshire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire Bertha Binnersley 1919 Burnley, Lancashire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire John Charles Edward Binnersley 1871 Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire Madeleine P Binnersley 1912 Burnley, Lancashire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire Mary Ann Binnersley 1920 Burnley, Lancashire, England Burnley Burnley Lancashire
Births Jun 1912 (>99%) Pickles Madeline Pickles Burnley 8e 317
Marriages Mar 1938 (>99%) Murphy Edward Pickles Burnley 8e 247 Pickles Madeline Murphy Burnley 8e 247
1939 Register 19 Whittam Street, Burnley, Burnley C.B., Lancashire, England Edward Murphy 01 Jun 1913 Male Back Tenter,Paper Making Machine Heavy Worker Married 241 1 Head Madeline Murphy 05 May 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 241 2 One closed record
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ErikaH
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3 Oct 2022 17:01 |
BINNERSLEY, FLORENCE MAY PICKLES GRO Reference: 1921 D Quarter in BURNLEY Volume 08E Page 271
Marriages Sep 1960 (>99%) Binnersley Florence M Garvey Ealing 5e 347 GARVEY William P BINNERSLEY Ealing 5e 347 Cert might say if her father is deceased
GARVEY, FLORENCE MAY 1921 GRO Reference: DOR Q3/2016 in HAMPSHIRE (504-1D) Entry Number 514228675
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