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Londonbelle thank you for the information, my lady Christine said that she wasn't sure this was the right James Langham. She hasn't been able to find anything else on a James Langham because we have so little information on him, I can honestly say I have no idea where he came from at all which is why I am at a brick wall.

It is so frustrating without further documentation which I don't know where to find. The baptism gives very little information other than the names and the birth certificate only has Mary's name on it.

thank you all
Jacquie

Same kind of advert from The Morning Advertiser 09 Aug 1860

Wanted, a Potman. Apply King's Arms, College Street, Westminster, between ten and eleven o'clock today. None need apply without a good character.



Think this is the King's Arms in the 1861 Census.

(wondering about below for newspapers, coming up on google, not found yet!, London Evening Standard, if AQ has more time than me)

Edits (looks to belong to a name Sly, H.J.L, but 1851)

Chris :)

London, England - Genes Reunited

www.genesreunited.co.uk/searchbna/results?memberlastsubclass...
... London, England. 16 Jan 1861 .... THk EVENING STANDARD, SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1861, ... J. L , king's Arms, Great College-st,, Westminster.


Edits (as below google William Hockley, they have Longham, instead of Langham)

http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/WestminsterStJohn/KingsArmsCollege.shtml

(oh, lol, was just looking for below 1861)

Chris :)

KING'S ARMS, Pimlico.-Now No. 68, Ranelagh Road.


06 June 1862 - Morning Advertiser - London, London, England

Wanted
Good IN-DOOR POT-MAN, one whose character will bear the strictest Investigation. Apply the King’s Arms, Ranelagh-road, Pimlico, between ten and eleven p.m.

This could be the James Langham in 1861 Census....the address is Great Cottage St, Kings Arms and James is a Potman. How did she know that this was the right James Langham?

Name: James Langham
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: 1822
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolwich, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Westminster St John the Evangelist
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 48
Folio: 2
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hockley 46
Jane Hockley 39
Rosina Hockley 21
Joseph Hockley 16
Elizabeth Robinson 18
Robert Robinson 16
Harriet Purscell 47
>>>>James Langham 39

Apologies haven't had internet today.

AustinQ no other document, was passed on by a lady in England who advised me that James Langham Snr was working as a potman at the Kings Arms in Pimlico in the 1861 census.

Chris No I haven't located him in the 1961 census as yet. I have him in the 1841, 1851, 1871 and 1881.

Appreciate all the help, this really is proving to be a major brickwall

Jacquie :) :-0

Is that 1861 posted the right Census then?, got confused a bit!...

Looking at previous page is Eliza Langham (36) Tailors wife...Essex. Gt. Dunmow.

(is she one of many at 'Running Horse' Beer Shop & Lodging House)

Chris :)

(any sight of Benjamin Liddiard 1861?)

Jacquiel, the document you found where they were both servants in Pimlico, was that James' baptism or is there another document?

Margaret the surname was Liddiard

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915

Name James Liddeaird
Estimated Birth Year abt 1860
Registration Year 1898
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death 38
Registration district Easthampstead
Parishes for this Registration District Easthampstead
Inferred County Berkshire
Volume 2c
Page 261

Yes AustinQ I managed to get the birth certificate recently.
Lambeth
1859 Waterloo Road Second
County of Surrey
7th July 1859 Hospital York Road
James Boy
Mother - Mary Tocock and she was living in Pimlico
No father listed on birth certificate

I found a record where both Mary Tocock and James Langham were servants in Pimlico.

Thats all the information I have, sorry.

You say that James died in 1898 and I was wondering what surname was used at his death however I can't find a death of James Tocock, Langham or Liddiard in 1898.

(glad that Cambridge one ruled out then, cos' not seeing things Drammond relating either, lol)

Chris :)

Jacquiel, do you have James birth certificate?

What is the address?

I meant to add that in relation to Mary Tocock I have been able to trace her through Polly Rubery and her help in finding Mary's mother Mary Ann Lawrence and James Tocock and her siblings Daniel, Esther, Harriet, James and Sarah.

So my problem lies solely with the Langham side of the tree which until my husband did a DNA test we were completely unaware that in fact the family is Langham and not Liddiard. Amazing the little turns family research takes.

Jacquie

Thank you all for your replies. This is the information I have is as per AustinQ with the Baptism record. Mary married Benjamin Liddiard and he was listed as his stepson in some papers I was given. He was with his mother and grandmother in 1851, then 1861 listed with Mary and Benjamin. He did pass away in 1898 and he was my husband's g-grandfather and although we made a visit to UK in July we were unable to glean any further information regarding this.

I cannot locate his biological father at all other than being given c1830 so it has been particularly difficult to find as I don't even know where he was born which also makes it difficult.

Thank you all for your help and comments. I do appreciate it as being in Australia sometimes it is difficult to obtain information.

Just expanding on that Baptism:

Name: James Langham
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 Jul 1859
Father's name: James Langham (servant)
Mother's name: Mary Tocock (servant)
Parish or Poor Law Union: Lambeth St Mary
Borough: Lambeth
Abode: Pimlico
Register Type: Parish Registers

So where did Jacquiel get a birth date of c1830 for his father?

I think that must be the correct one as it fits with the death on the Ancestry tree:

Berkshire Burial Index Transcription
First name(s) James
Last name Liddiard
Birth year 1860
Death year 1898
Burial year 1898
Burial day 13
Burial month Oct
Church SS Michael & Mary Magdalene
Place Easthampstead
Age 38
Residence Easthampstead
County Berkshire

Following on from MargaretM''s 1861 Census find there is a Marriage of a aMary Tocock to a Benjamin Liddiard in 1862 Easthampstead.

Then in 1871 there is a James Liddiard son of Benjamin & Mary Liddiard born in Easthampstead but I just wonder if that is James Tocock?

Edit 1871 Census

Name: James Liddiard
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's name: Benjamin Liddiard
Mother's name: Mary Liddiard
Gender: Male
Where born: Easthampstead, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Easthampstead
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Easthampstead
Sub-registration district: Bracknell
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 68
Piece: 1294
Folio: 22
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
Benjamin Liddiard 38
Mary Liddiard 36
James Liddiard 12
Charles Liddiard 4

Thanks Chris, I think the Tocock James is more likely, but could do with a bit of feedback. A private tree on Ancestry has James Langham (legitimate father ) 1859- 1898 but I'm not seeing a death under Langham or Tocock that fits that information.