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Looking for info on Thomas Batten (my gt gt gt grandfather) he was born abt 1806 and was a Watchman at St Andrew Holborn in 1834(old bailey proceedings) I know he married Elizabeth Cock in 1825 Shoreditch, They had my gt gt grandfather Thomas Batten in Jan 1838 and William Henry in 1842 and I have full family tree from their births(Thomas and William were both christened in Nov 1851 St Ann Blackfriars) why would they be christened aged 13 and 9?
Any help with Thomas Snr would be helpful, I believe the family were listed with the surname Allen in 1851.

Name: Thomas Batten
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Cock
Event Date: 18 Apr 1825
Event Place: Saint Leonards,Shoreditch,London,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M04080-3 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 405104, 405105, 405106, 405107, 405108, 405109

Name: William Henry Batten
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 23 Nov 1851
Christening Place: ST ANN BLACKFRIARS,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 16 Oct 1842
Father's Name: Thomas Batten
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P02209-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 0374416, 0374417

?????????????

Name: Thomas Batten
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1857
Registration District: Shoreditch
County: London
Event Place: Shoreditch, London, England
Volume: 1C
Page: 136
Line Number: 37

Name: Thomas Batten
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 23 Nov 1851
Christening Place: ST ANN BLACKFRIARS,LONDON,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 25 Jan 1838
Father's Name: Thomas Batten
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P02209-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 0374416, 0374417

Thomas Batten b:1838 living in Shoreditch, London. The 1901 census gives his birthplace as Holborn, London, after many visits to the family records office in London the only birth record of Thomas Batten I can find that fits is in Chard in 1838. I know his father was Thomas Batten a City police officer according to his sons marriage cert but I can't find any record of him anywhere. Is it possible that he is the same Thomas Batten as your one born in 1808


BATTENs UK, Somerset, Chard, Yeovil, Devon,Whitestauton ...


boards.ancestry.com › Surnames › Batten

... I have a Thomas Batten b:1838 living in Shoreditch, London. ... London, after many visits to the family records office in London the only birth record of ...

Shoreditch, England, London: Genealogy, Ancestry, Family ...


en.geneanet.org/history-city-town-county-village/shoreditch-LND...

Shoreditch, England, London: Genealogy, Ancestry, ... Shoreditch: Genealogy, Ancestry, Family History, Local History, Vital Records, Parish Registers, Archive, ...

Thanks for the info, not sure about 1857 death of Thomas Batten snr as he was not deceased on marriage cert of son Thomas in Dec 1859? Any idea why brothers Thomas and William would have been christened over 10 years after their birth?
Was hoping to find any info on Thomas Batten (birth about 1806) or records of him as a watchman, earliest address is in 1841 is Plough Court, Holborn .

That is my post many years ago as to the birth of Thomas Batten 1838. LDS gives a birth on 25th Jan 1838, no location but parents marriage 1825 in Shoreditch, London and christening in 1851 Blackfriars, London. The family was in London from 1825, why can't I find a birth for Thomas Batten in London in 1838??
I have searched the births of my Thomas's in London many times and just keep coming back to the Chard births,doesn't make sense.

Nicola


many children were not baptised when babies ................... the reasons are many ................. including cost, the church being without a vicar, parents not considering it important, etc etc


Many children would be baptised with 2 or more siblings ................... one suggestion has been that that was cheaper :-)


Children could be baptised when it was time for them to go to work ............... being baptised might be a condition of employment.

This could apply to your two, as the elder child would certainly be old enough to be out at work back then ................ children 2 or 3 years younger than him woud be working.



Finally, another time at which to find a baptism would be just before someone married .............. again thought to be essential. Some people even got themselves baptised a second time if they were not sure that they had been baptised as a child!

just to clarify things in my mind, I know you have the record ................


is this your Thomas in 1841?


1841 Census

Name: Thomas Batten
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: St Andrew Holborn (Below The Bars)
Hundred: London Within the Walls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: West London
Sub-registration district: London South West

Piece: 724
Book: 2
Folio: 32
Page Number: 59

William Rudgley 70
Maria Rudgley 60
Thomas Batten 35 Labourer
Elizabeth Batten 35
Elizabeth Batten 15
Sarah Batten 10
Thomas Batten 4



Are you aware that birth years on the 1841 for all persons over the age of 15 were to be rounded down to the nearest 5?


This means that Thomas could have been born up to 4 years earlier than indicated

ie, between 1802 and 1806.

and that rounding down of ages, has me coming back again and again to this baptism.


I found it on ancestry, but it is taken from Family Search



England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about Thomas Batten

Name: Thomas Batten
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 Sep 1803
Baptism Date: 15 Aug 1804
Baptism Place: Saint Olave,Southwark,London,England
Father: Joseph Batten
Mother: Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 0254561-0254565

The christening of the 2 boys at age for work makes the most sense.
Thanks for the info.

In 1841 I have Thomas Batten (born 1837) living at 7 Plough Court, Holborn with rest of household names and ages same as SylvialnCanada found, excepted for the Rudgley's,I may have missed them while searching for just Batten's. Can SylvialnCanada confirm the same address of 7 Plough Court in your post of 1841 census? and a birth for Thomas in London finally !!! Thank you

you have looked at the census image Nicola and not just the transcription?

Ancestry makes a terrible hash of the 1841 census at times and it is always wise to check images ... otherwise you might believe a 2-yr-old child was living in a household of its own ;) ... or that completely unrelated people were part of the same household ...

in this case William Rudgeley a painter is the last name on one page, shown at 7 Plough Court, and the Battens on the next page at the same address do seem to be in the same household (no single line after Maria)

there is also a William Blackney aged 15 at the address, separated by a single line, possibly boarder or could be a relation of some kind


just to add to what SylviaInCanada said about baptisms, one other reason for a late baptism is in contemplation of death

in one of my families, their many children were baptised in odd batches and singles over the years, e.g. the eldest son at the age of 16 after several younger ones had been baptised 3 years earlier, but the second eldest son was baptised two years after his marriage ... and he died of tuberculosis within weeks, so I assume that was the reason for the baptism.

Thomas Batten Sr is shown in 1841 as not born in county, so Sylvia's baptism could very well be the right one


Thomas Sr was not with the family in the 1851 census - ah, is that because he was a night watchman possibly?

Name: Thomas Allen [Thomas Batten]
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elizabeth Allen
Where born: St Andrew, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: London City

Elizabeth Allen 49 born Pancras, no occupation
Mary Ann Allen 19
Thomas Allen 13 errand boy
William Allen 8
Elizabeth Ann Allen 3

do you know the person who corrected the surname at Ancestry in 2012?

notice that as Sylvia said, Elizabeth was probably older than 35 in 1841 ... she is 49 in 1851

Have you managed to work out whose child Elizabeth Ann from the 1851 is. I haven't.

When William Henry got married, in 1864, he had his father as deceased. I wonder if he could be the Thomas Batten who died in Hatton Garden 1853 aged 50.

I can't find William Batten on the 1861.

It appears that Kirby Street and Hatton Garden are missing from the 1851 census. How frustrating. :-(

Is it possible to get a copy of Thomas Batten and Elizabeth Cock marriage cert in 1824? I have no experience finding certs this far back, where would I find it ?

AnnCardiff has found the details and ref for the marriage on 18 april 1825(not 1824)
How would I apply for a copy of that marriage cert?

Nicola


there are no certificates for births, marriage or deaths at that time



The registration of bmds began on July 1 1837 in England and Wales, in about 1855 in Scotland.



The only records are the parish Records for baptisms, marriages and burials.


Unfortunately, most baptisms and burials do not give the actual birth or death dates