General Chat

I carry a Spanish ID card and have no problem with the idea of ID cards. In fact I think that the advantages outweigh the loss of civil liberties - having my fingerprints registered with the police and giving the police the right to stop me anywhere at any time to ask to see my ID. However, I agree that they don´t stop crime, be it terrorists or even burglars or muggers and just like bank notes, they can be forged. But everyone is talking about the initial outlay to obtain the cards.Although the cards are not expensive here, don´t forget that they have to be renewed every ten years ( and paid for ). That if you change your name when you marry that´s a new card. Here, when you change your address you are supposed to change your card ( paying each time of course ) Any lost , stolen or damaged cards must be obtained again. How will immigrants with no proof of identity ( i.e. birth certificates) obtain their card? Sworn declarations? I honestly don´t feel that the details have been explained sufficiently to the general public.

Personally, I'm all for Identity Cards. And even if they are 'free' we will pay for them indirectly through our taxes anyway. If it means I will only have to carry ONE identifying piece of information with me I shall be thrilled. No more pin numbers to forget, no Driving Licence/Passport etc to guard with my life everytime I step outdoors... Talking of Passports, I had to renew mine in 2000. It was four years out of date - I hadn't been anywhere. I had to produce my Birth Certificate and BOTH sets of divorce papers (divorced twice) and BOTH Marriage Certs. As my first marriage was a brief one, over 35 years ago, it was a sheer stroke of luck that I had kept both sets of papers. I then had to pay my GP (who doesn't know me from Adam, I never go to the Doctor) £15, I think, to say I was who I say I am. I am of course, a law-abiding person and my life is an open book. Sure, ID cards won't stop determined fraudsters - but it might slow them down. As far as I understand it, they will be linked to NI numbers etc which in turn will be linked to birth and marriage certs etc. And, speaking as someone who has had to do c* jobs for years in order to earn a living, if it stops JUST ONE benefit fraudster I will be cheering my head off. And if everyone who OUGHT to pay Tax is caught, perhaps my Tax Bill will be lower? 'They' already know all there is to know about me. The information will be neither more nor less vulnerable than it already is - I really do not give a damn if someone can hack in and find out that I only earned £2,800 last year, or that I was born in Manchester or whatever. If they try to steal my identity, how are they going to copy my fingerprints (which will of course be on the National Database along with all my other identifying info) or my eye-recognition thingy? Nothing will ever stop a determined Terrorist, so I think its stupid to even bring that into the equation - we have plenty of British-born nutters who wreak havoc, be it terrorism or serial murder without ever leaving these shores. I shall be first in line for one - bet it smooths MY passage through life (well, ahead of those who don't have one, anyway) Marjorie

Hi Amanda they tried to do it here in Oz, Called the Australia Card...in the end everything is linked anyway by our Medicare cards and Tax File Numbers...so big brother is watching no matter what...I agree with the others if your goverment wants them they should pay. Just google Australia Card and have a read. Vickie

At present, although various details on you are on different databases, few of those communicate with each other, so the fact that you have a Tesco loyalty card doesn't give you access to benefits. Which is a safeguard. If you have a single ID card which is universally accepted as proof of identity, if those details are fraudently obtained and mis-used, then you are in trouble with absolutely everyone you deal with. And if the 'proof' on the card is biometric, will you need your fingerprints taken every time you draw cash from the bank or visit the doctor? It would be interesting if you refuse to have fingerprints taken or insist on closing your eyes during an iris scan, will it be done forcibly?

Have you seen the smart chips idea that they are thinking of bringing in Brian? They will be attached to everything you buy and when you pay by card or swipe your loyalty card they can record the actual items that you buy. The data is supposed to be for retailers to have a more accurate idea of their target customers etc, but potentially they can actually track the individual products via a satalite link. Whilst the reasoning behind it is harmless enough (though I don't really like the idea that they have so much knowledge about me), I can't help but think that other agencies could take advatage of this development. It's almost like being tagged. :-s

See it was passed last night - with tiny majority and a promise to 'cap' the cost - WE shouldn't have to pay more than £20 each (max) in my book! Lily

The cost is not my main concern, although I definitely cannot afford the 2 we would need. My main fear is the Big brother world we are slipping into at a terrifying speed. And NO, I am not a criminal, and have nothing to hide!! Deanna

i'm not against cards, but they are easilly lost or stolen, shame they can't invent a micro chip, like they use for animals. don't agree in having to pay for it though lynnxx

Completely against the idea of ID card, whether or not I have to pay for it. I already have a passport and driving licence, as well as internationally-acceptable identification from four other countries; why do I need more, particularly at such cost? For those who have 'nothing to hide' - would you like an official rummaging around in your wardrobe every year? or rifling through your correspondence? or checking the contents of your fridge? Perhaps a bit more intrusive than a card, but the principle is the same. IF (big, BIG IF!) the card is for identification purposes only (as opposed to monitoring your every movement), then why do we not simply register our iris and/or retina patterns? That is something that none of us can leave at home, few of us will lose (and those unfortunates who do are registered separately anyway), and is totally unforgeable. It lays the burden of identification upon those seeking to identify, not the other (wrong!) way round. The cost to them will be no more prohibitive: whichever way they do it, they will have to be linked to a national database, all they have to do is install a retina scanner, as opposed to a card scanner! What really frightens me is that the intention is to pass the law, THEN try to make it work! To date, no national IT scheme has been anything other than a complete and utter waste of time and huge quantities of OUR money (never, ever forget that governments do not MAKE money, they merely take it from their citizens in legalized theft). Rob

I can't see how they can make it law and then put a price tag on it.....there are so many people who wouldn't be able to pay what happens to them.....will they be put in jail....or will the tax payer pay for them....either way those with will pay!!! As someone else said here the illegals will still see a way round it unless it does include something your iris being scanned but God forbid there is still a way round that!!!! 1984 in 2005!!!!!! As I previously said we do have ID cards but these are mostly used for voting and when you hook up to the electricity or want credit......they are not compulsary!!! Jacquie xxx

Radio 4 - NOW - may be interesting Lily

As you all know from my previous thoughts I am totally against the idea as I cannot see the information remaining safe. Last year there was a programme on the BBC about identity fraud and how easy it is to obtain. It took 10 minutes for a person to steal and reproduce the finger prints from the commentator thus enabling the thief to reproduce various identification relating to this person,how long before the technology can be devised to steal retina information if it hasn't already been done! You may feel this is far fetched and I'm paranoid but my eyes really opened up when I watched the film ENEMY OF THE STATE this information was accessed by government agencies and the technology is probably more advanced than the film showed. If the government can have these controls imagine what the criminal world could log into. The question is..........would my personal details be safer with the government or the criminal? lou

Its a complete load of Bull----,if you ask me.just some way out of a delema of the Goverments Failings. and costing the taxpayer money yet again,just a smokescreen to cover the incompetence of our immigration system.The people who want an ID.card Illegally will get one anyway,the same way as they copy Credit Cards Etc. Hal.

Dorothy What is 'political correctness' other than Newspeak?

People who use the old 'if you have nothing to hide...' line are very naive. If I have nothing to hide then I don't have to prove it - you must prove otherwise. All humans make mistakes even without there being the malicious element. Computers don't programme themselves and all the data has to be input and linked by humans. Computers and equipment malfunction all the time. BTW, can someone explain to me how David Blunkett will have an iris scan? 'Just stare at the screen, Mr B, and keep your eyes still....'

For such a scheme to be successful it has to be one hundred percent effective. If just one person fails to register the scheme becomes useless. With so many illegal immigrants or failed assylum seekers who simply melt into the background the scheme falls at the first hurdle. There is on security grounds a basis for establishing a persons identity on first entry to this country. This is the state’s responsibility and one that it has consistently failed to uphold under this government. The object of the exercise is total accountability and as no system is perfect it is better to improve existing methods than to introduce another tier that does not meet the criteria required of it. If someone entering into our country cannot prove their identity beyond doubt then entry should be refused without appeal. Would a genuine assylum seeker dispose of their only means of identifying themselves if it meant refusal of entry. Why would a legal entrant to this country hide in the back of a lorry to gain entry? A person born and bred in this country has a history and questions on this can be used to identify them before payment of benefits. Is that too difficult? A potential terrorist will never use an identity card. What this country desperately needs is real government,I say to this one “get real”.

Any more thoughts, after yesterday's carnage in London? Lily

Yes - in the light of Thursday's atrocity - ID cards would not have prevented this in any way. What it could have done, though, is make the task of identifying the victims much quicker and perhaps prepared those, who wait in agony over the fate of their loved ones, for the inevitable. Old Crone

If they bring ID cards in and they dont work what will be the next step? maybe implanting chips into people, lets not have ID cards its a step in the wrong direction.