General Chat

Rupert Bear, I am aware that the original convict settlers were transported for having done next to nothing. There were many transported just for being orphans too. Whether we've come a long way or not as a nation is partly a matter of perspective. Like homelessness, criminality and almost every other aspect of human behaviour is a very complex issue and variable as to the time and the place.

On the subject of people on the streets.... There have been homeless people throughout history. Homelessness is a complex issue. It is partly about political decision making (such as in Britain, the selling off of council housing, cutting benefit entitlement to under 25s, not investing in children leaving care) but largely about people not coping with life and not being able to get (or feel they are able to accept) the help they need. The sort of things that lie behind homelessness include not coping with: debt, marriage breakdown, death, an abusive relationship, drug or alcohol problems, mental health problems, unemployment, low self esteem. What it has never been about is a lack of accommodation because of immigration. On the subject of immigration.... If you go back far enough (to before the last ice age in Britain's case) there were no people in Britain, or the Americas or Australia or virtually anywhere else for that matter. We are all the descendents of immigrants. Where we came from and how we got here is important to us (or we wouldn't be using this site) but it doesn't make us good or bad people. It's how we use that knowledge to live in the present and for the future that matters.

Just came back to what started off as a really nice thread, and once again find it all went weird, am not going to comment except to repeat myself from the start of this, will the louder spoken of us who have repeatedly shouted about being entitled to their opinion (yes you are) please stop saying that any one who does not agrea with them is either politically correct, that is just another way of saying you are entitled to your opinion while ridiculing people who are not as extreme. Thankyou...I am not politically correct or a do gooder, I am me and as entitled to my opinion as anyone else, even if I try to be polite!

My boss is an immigrant who wanted a better life for his family. He had to be separated from his wife and children for several months until he could support them. He had to re qualify in his field to get up to british standards. He works very hard, is a lovely man and is grateful to the country that took him in. I wouldn't want to send him back to Zimbabwe! Claire xx

What a brilliant thread! How I wish my colleagues at work felt like the majority on here re immigrants! They are bringing their children up to hate anyone of any other colour and I despise it. What annoys me even more is 2 of them actually started going to church so they could get their children into a Christian school - what hypocrites! As for asylum seekers - I suggest to some of you that you watch Hotel Rwanda. As said before there is good and bad in everyone. Debby

Felicity , you must be thinking of the original settler convicts because anyone who had a criminal record did not have a chance of getting into Australia. If you were referring to convicts etc then you may be suprised that Australians born of these 'criminals'caught stealing bread for their families are proud of them. Very few were hardened criminals and did less than most 'yobs' in this country do today. To my mind that indicates how far Briitish justice has gone in the wrong direction and shows exactly how the politically correct brigade have introduced controversity in the immigration debate when there should have been none. Had the government taken a hard line like other countries we would not be in the huge mess we are in today. Perhaps they did not want to take that line to gain political advantage for their own ends. Rupert Bear (Still seething at the situatiopn)

To return to the original topic for a moment, it wouldn't hurt to remember that whatever Australia's policy now it was originally the dumping ground for all the criminals and misfits that Britian didn't want. As for the USA, not everyone requires a visa to come here and there is a HUGE issue with immigration, illegal and otherswise.

When my daughter left home the council had her in a B&B quicker than she could pack and that is in the north they also helped sort out her benefits and get her organised with college applications. Julie xxx

I have really enjoyed reading this positive thread. Thank you Lily. BC

It is nice that this young man has given his own time and creative knowledge to the children of your school, Starstruck, please wish him well, some people don't want handouts but need them to survive :) Heather

Roxanne, what is not true? It is true that those who abuse drink and drugs can get an immediate appointment to see a counsellor with the charity I used to work for. It is true that there is an obligation on councils to house those who are homeless but they can insist that people are drink and drug free. There are those caught in the middle who are not prepared to try to come off their addiction and those who are unable to cope when given somewhere to live. Gwynne

I'm not trying to say that everyone enjoys living on the streets. For some people, there simply is no where else for what ever reason, but I promise I have worked with quite a number of people who have, even when offered accomodation, refused it outright, saying they are happier on the streets. I bumped into one recently and he told me he had turned down yet another flat, he is a real free spirit, and very happy, no mental health, drug, alcohol probs. I would never consider it right to enforce my views onto him, if thats what he wants, who am I to disagree?! Sarah

Roxanne, I was a volunteer counsellor for a substance abuse service which has branches in every large city. Anyone can walk in off the streets and be seen straight away. Lisa, Contact your local branch of MIND they may be able to arrange for you to see one of their counsellors. Gwynne

just go to london and see what these people have to go through everyday.xxxxx):

roxanne i agree even councilling there is a waiting list that is why i am on anti depressants.i have to wait along time to be seen by an nhs counciller.the help isn't out therexxxxx):

I'm glad that this thread was taken in the spirit it was meant. I don't think the Croatian got paid, he was just there for a day. But his work (and that of the children) is to be displayed and admired within school, in the Autumn. As an aside - my school has just won an Enviromental Award and were presented with a nice big cheque by Prof. David Bellamy. Lily

After having worked with the homeless for many years I can assure you that very few of the people on the streets are there for any other reason than A) They like living outside - quite a few do - especially in the summer months B) They have been evicted from other types of accomodation usually due to violence/arson, then no one else will take them. Hostels and housing providers have a duty to provide accomodation to anyone who is truly homeless including drug/alcohol users, they would only lose their places due to the above reasons or rent arrears - in which case they normally find a bed somewhere else. There is no duty to house failed asylum seekers at all, and support in the form of housing and all benefits (if applicable) is withdrawn once the application for asylum is denied. This leaves many on the streets with no other option. It may seem surprising, but I agree with a lot of what Rupertbear says, the problem is with the government not the immigrants. People should be allowed to work and support themselves from day one in this country, not stuck with benefits for 6 months, which many don't want. Sarah

I agree with alot that Purple Petunia has stated. Our problems not so much with the migrants as with the government. In Australia you work and no hand outs (at least when we were there as a family in 1970 to 74) you had medicals including TB xrays before you went and within 6weeks of arrival. What happens here ?nothing My sister in law that would have been died in 1947 from TB and this was virtually eradicated in this country in the late 60's. It is now rife here due to inaction of the powers that be. We have Aids brought in ever increasing numbers to add to our own and what is done ? nothing. Do we ask what immigrants have to support themselves ? No, we just give them handouts . In other countrys you are deported if you do not match their criteria . What happens here ? Nothing. If they are refused entry legally most of them fade away into the night with instructions issued by the government not to chase after them. The government or at least Mr Blair harPs on about the need for labour. If we need labour skills make B----y sure they are the skills we need whereby immigrants pay the taxes and other taxes that we pay when working legally.. I am not worried about upsetting people on these boards if my view differs to theirs. Before I get hung drawn and quartered think on the way this country is going and if anyone of you can say we will be better off as things are taking place and the speed at which they are happening then good luck to you. I came back to this country from Australia because of my wifes health due to severe homesickness leading to complete breakdowns Their health service was, and is, far superior to ours as has been our misfortune to find out recently. Why? because although there maybe staff made up of immigrants and I acknowledge this the number of people it is trying to serve is far beyond the means of our country. Rupert Bear (not ashamed of my Views)

i find that hard to believe.maybe it's true but i for one if i were homeless would like the chance to get back on my feet.xxxxxxxxx):

Lisa, I think you have been misinformed. Many 'homeless' people choose that life because of drug and alcohol abuse. All local authorities have an obligation to house the homeless people who want to be housed, even if only in hostels. There is no need for anyone to sleep on the streets on a permanent basis. Gwynne