General Chat

From the BBC website..... 'Row as Christmas lights renamed Christmas lights have been renamed in Lambeth A decision to call Christmas lights 'Winter Lights' in south London has been condemned as showing a 'total lack of respect' for Christians. Advertisements for the switch-on of the lights in multi-cultural Lambeth have renamed them, apparently for fear of offending other faiths. Tory councillor Bernard Gentry told the BBC: 'Christmas appears to have been cancelled in our borough'. A spokesman said it was an error by a junior official and not council policy. In three of Lambeth's main town centres, the lights were referred to as 'Winter Lights', while in a fourth they were called 'Celebrity Lights'. The council spokeswoman said an official was concerned about people from other religions. She said: 'It was a junior-level decision and it happened to go into print which was an error basically. 'I think it was certainly not a council policy that we should call the lights winter lights.' But it has led to a series of headlines such as 'Christmas is banned' and 'The PC [politically correct] lights show' and led some members of other faiths to call it 'ridiculous'. And Mr Gentry, a conservative member of the joint Lib Dem-Tory controlled borough, told the BBC it went against efforts to promote respect for all faiths. 'It just seems totally against everything that we as members of the council have said, when officers try to airbrush out one of the main festivals of what is still the biggest religion in Lambeth.' 'The idea that, in some way, the religious festival of Christmas is offensive to others is just daft - I have never heard a single person who's said that.' The advert appeared in Lambeth Life - a newspaper distributed by the council - and on posters. ' On local radio this morning they quoted Muslim leaders as saying what a load of rubbish this was and of course they weren't offended. So please don't blame them - blame the idiot at the council ! Maz. XX

I'm glad I wasn't the ONLY one feeling like my OWN country is eroding our traditions. I think Andy Opp North has a very valid point..to quote him if I may 'Is this really the opinion of the Muslim community? Or is it one or two influential voices who claim to be speaking for them?' I think Lambeth Council have offended many this morning and I bet its not just Muslims!!! Blasted cheek.....I also agree that this will create racial hatred and tension , because a few narrow minded people will blame them and NOT the idiotic council. I suspect the muslims love christmas as much as a Jehovah's witness does ( the latter in secrecy lol ) I lived in LUTON for 12 years ( a huge multicultral community ) they manged to celebate everything St patricks Day, Dawali & Christmas there was room for it all. I'm fed up to the back teeth..........it's not the frst time I've posted something of this nature on our boards and like many of you I have many friends of different nationalites......... I too have e mailed Lambeth Council and await a reply .....Who are they to decide that Chritmas is Banned .........did they put it to the vot of the normal working person within their constituancy? I DOUBT IT!!

Let's make sure we are blaming the right people - 'Leaders from all faiths have joined forces to condemn the council's decision' The Muslim council of Gt Britain said the decision 'beggared belief that people would think naming Christmas lights would be offensive.' Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell said it was ridiculous and misguided. Local MP Kate Hoey - 'This is absolutely stupid and puts the council into a position of ridicule. I have yet to meet a single constituent from whatever faith background who does not enjoy the Christmas Lights.' So let's have a go at Lambeth Council not the people (of whatever faith or colour) who live there. Gwynne

For more information relating to this topic. Go to www*lambeth*gov*uk and see 02 Nov press release under the heading 'Christmas lights' Patty

You can bet all the corner shops in Lambeth run by muslims will be selling christmas stuff John

thank you Gwynne - that was exactly what I was trying to say too! Maz XX

Just as an aside (not making any direct comments about the ban Christmas lights issue, on which I agree with most of what's been said) but can we please stop saying things like 'they should go back to their own country' - in a huge majority of cases this is their own country. Simon

Well said Gwynne - why is it that everyone always believes everything they hear before finding out the full facts? I went on the Daily Express website to read the full story before I commented but couldn't find it - there was just a picture of the front page! I hope the council are going to apologise for the mistake made but I doubt that will make headline news and obviously the damage has already been done. Fred - only children who have reached puberty and are in full health take part in Ramadam. Debby

Miss happy, i think you need to find out who actually said it before cursing people, read Mazs reply and i will guarentee that the person in the council is non muslim. My niece has converted to Islam(she was born in this country)and she gives her children the best of both worlds, she doesn't do the lights and trees and quite frankly i don't blame her lately they are OTT, she wears a scarf and has been told to get back to her own country while taking her children to school. but it always backfires on the racist when she starts on them in a scouse accent...MOE!

I think that it seems we are all agreed that this is was a decision made by the mad PC brigade or a very small minority or people, and not the general opinion of people who's faith is not Christian, and that has proved to be the case as Maz pointed out. It is just that Gwynne is as usual, so eloquent at expressing what I think most of us seem to feel. :o) It also goes to show how such a seemingly 'junior' mistake could lead to so much misunderstanding! Claire xx

I agree Simon , Its a thread regard Lambeth Council taking it upon themselves to ASSUME that Muslims will be offended. So I ask Lambeth council........... of all the Jehovah's Witnesses that most defiantely WILL be offended regarding Chritmas....... will they take their feelings into account too? Have they EVER thought how much they have offended this faith in the past??? IDIOT COUNCIL!!

We are putting up CHRISTMAS lights, not winter lights, this year - again - and if anyone's offended - TOUGH! From Mrs-Knickers-In-Another-Twist. >:-(

I am in total agreement with Andy, and all those who said that this was something dreamed up by Lambeth Council and does not reflect the views of the vast majority of Muslims. It is not that long ago that my children left school, and they exchanged Christmas cards with Muslim and Hindu friends, every year; as I did/do/will with my friends & neighbours. Could it be possible that PC does not stand for 'political correctness' at all, but for 'patronising cobblers'.

A few words come to mind, but to sum it all up! 'Bloody Jobsworths' . Hal.

Glenys - I'm quite sure that nobody will be offended.

Some friendly (and free) advice for anyone who may need it. Read the UK's 'Malicious Communications Act' as it pertains to statements made publicly over the web, which may under certain conditions, be 'actionable' in UK law. Or simply read clause 12 of the GR Terms and Conditions of membership. Patty

I saw this too. Heartily sick of it all all this PC rubbish - I live in the outskirts of Bradford and we have Ramadan lights up for them they should allow our Christian festival in a CHRISTIAN country. Racial tensions are increasing in this country and this will only add to them, Enoch Powells 'rivers of blood' speech is looking frighteningly true. Many areas are no go zones and it will only get worse.

This is exactly why I object to this sort of thread. It's a misinformed half story posted to cause discord. A load of people post Outraged of Middle England replies saying how terrible, aren't we hard done by and if they don't like it they can go home etc. Luckily there are some people with the sense to look into something before they comment on it - and I'm really chuffed they are both my mates - and demonstrate that it's an error for which the council have apologised, caused by one over zealous and over sensitive official. Deborah, this isn't the first time you've posted a thread designed to cause controversy which is based on something near spurious. Why?

If we are expected to respect their relgion, then they must learn to respect ours, I will for one refuse to call them 'winter lights' they are now and always will be christmas lights. Bev

Your quite right David Owen ........ and I said as much in one of my answers on this thread. Perhaps because as it's Front Page news in one of our better newspapers and perhaps because this is a general topics board I felt strongly enough to bring into the foreground . Oh and because I have the FREEDOM to do so . Its an extremely debatable topic.......and one that has many sides and opinions of which we can learn. I'd like you to take time and read through the whole thread please David Owen and see that some people have corrected my original thread and added in more depth to the article. You see I too have learnt that this HEADLINE FRONT PAGE article has in fact sprouted from a junior in the Lambeth Council. However it was breaking news when I wrote the original thread and thus factual..........at that time. Much happiness Debi