General Chat

For Heather positive thinker, Roxanne, Dizzy Lizzy and all others who are interested! I hope it's not bad manners to pinch this question off the thread about Jehovah's Witnesses? It's just that I don't particularly want to nudge that thread, as this topic has no real connection to it! Denise

The Bible describes the gift of tongues as one of the spiritual gifts given to believers in Jesus who have been baptised (filled) with The Holy Spirit. This gift was first seen at Pentecost when the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit & were able to preach the gospel in other languages, so that many could respond.(Acts 2 v4) Just as then, the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit are available nowadays to those who have been born again, a term used to describe the acceptance of a new life through trusting in Jesus! There are other gifts, but many people are fascinated by the gift of tongues, as it is so strange! Quite simply, God gives the Christian command of a new unknown language, with which to worship & pray, that bypasses our mind & understanding! In that way, Christian believers are able to get outside of the confines and restrictions of English, or their own language, very useful when you are not sure what or how to pray! Denise

BUT, but but ....................I have read that scripture and indeed the disciples were given the gift of tongues in order they could spread the message across the world. But in that context the gift would be the understanding and use of foreign languages in order to communicate with possible converts. What I dont understand is how some religions have people jumping up screaming a load of gobble de gook and saying it is the gift of tongues??? How can a lot of gibberish be communicating the word to anyone? And if they are among believers why would they have to use it anyway. Seems very strange to me. Like possession.Sort of thing you see with voodoo practices.

From New Testament times onwards, as the Christian church has spread worldwide, different denominations and traditions have emerged, which take different tacks on many topics, the exercise of spiritual gifts being one of these. Largely the determination to stick to biblical principles and put gifts such as tongues into practice, has remained within the new stream non denominational or the pentecostal, charismatic (meaning gifts) churches. But in recent decades, a re- awakening of understanding of the power and infilling of the Holy Spirit has been taking place within Anglican, Baptist, Methodist & other mainstream Christian churches, and there are now many members & leaders of well respected established churches who experience & endorse the use of gifts such as tongues, healing, prophecy, etc. Denise

Hi Heather You are absolutely right, the first instance of the gift of tongues was the ability to use KNOWN languages of the time to communicate the good news about Jesus to people! Rarely, but occasionally, there have been instances in modern times where Christians have recieved the ability to do that , and have written about it, for instance the American pastor who was briefly enabled to speak Chinese in order to share the gospel with a Chinese man on a plane, this man accepted Jesus as his saviour, but died shortly after landing! God knew that the American pastor was this man's last chance??!! However, as you have observed, and as Paul comments in some of his letters in the new testament, mostly believers exercise the gift of tongues directly to communicate with God. Paul wonders aloud if the languages are angelic? No-one knows, but God, I guess! There are several distinct purposes of praying/speaking in tongues: 1. to worship God from our spirit without being limited by our mind or language 2. to pray according to God's leading, not our own views 3. to bring prophecy or guidance, in which case, again as Paul says quite clearly, it is no use without the complementary gift of interpretation! If the gift of tongues is used in a congregation in such a way that it appears , as you described, Heather,as out of control and disconcerting, then it is not edifying God or his church, and should be kept in check by the leadership! Denise

How times change. At the Tower of Babel the gift of tongues was a curse. Everybody speaking in different languages and not being able to understand one another.

Hey Jim! Thanks for joining in this discussion! Genesis 11 has the story of the tower of Babel, which does involve language change, but is not at all the same as the gift of tongues received as a result of receiving God's holy spirit. When Jesus went up to Heaven he said he would send the helper, the Holy Spirit, and the new Testament gifts started from then. This is the Babel story: Up until this point in the Bible, after the Flood, the whole world had one language - one common speech for all people. The people of the earth became skilled in construction and decided to build a city with a tower that would reach to heaven. By building the tower they wanted to make a name for themselves and also prevent their city from being scattered. God came to see their city and the tower they were building. He perceived their intentions, and in His infinite wisdom, He knew this 'stairway to heaven' would only lead the people away from God. He noted the powerful force within their unity of purpose. As a result, God confused their language, causing them to speak different languages so they would not understand each other. By doing this, God thwarted their plans. He also scattered the people of the city all over the face of the earth. As you say Jim not so much a gift as a warning from God, that he knows best, and sometimes might seem to be cruel to be kind! D

Hi Denise, Thank you for posting this thread. I must admit I always assumed (maybe wrongly) that when a believer spoke in tongues, they had entered some sort of trance-like state through being filled with the Holy Spirit. Having never seen it though, it is good to have your explanation. Liz :-)

Hi Lizzy! No, definitely no trance!! In fact the Bible makes it very clear that the believer exercises control & choice over the use of spiritual gifts, and should do so at all times! There are times when it may not be appropriate for public use of tongues etc, each should exercise discernment and wisdom here. There is often though a period of time during worship, in church, when many people sing in their own God-given worship language- but this is not outside of their control, even though they do not understand the words! And it shouldn't sound threatening or scary, even to the unbeliever, usually 'singing in the spirit' sounds really beautiful , if understandably a bit strange and new to those who have never experienced it before! Can I stress again though, that I am not talking about weird 'other worldly' sects or groups here?! The belief that God gives Christian believers 'super natural' (literally outside of the natural) gifts in order to build up them & the church, is a belief and experience that is shared by many across the denominations and across the world. And it is TOTALLY biblical! Many churches that have become dry & set in their ways have come alive again when they have opened up to the workings of God's holy spirit, and seen lives transformed & congregations growing again.God never intended for there to be divisions and denominations, just followers of Jesus, filled with the Spirit, taking the good news of God's offer of salvation to the ends of the Earth! And the power and gifts of the Spirit was and still is the petrol in the tank- to enable them to do just that! D Denise

Hi denise,Thanks for posting this,Ive often wondered about it, The Lady I mentioned is a very devote christian and a lovely person,I have not heard her ,I have only been told this by her daughter. She is a born again Christian, also she only ever wears white, Pardon my Ignorance but is the wearing of white relevant to her faith? Thanks Roxanne x

Im going from memory here - forgive me, bible packed away with all the books at the mo. But I seemed to remember Paul not being happy about the use of this sort of made up language.

Hi Roxanne No, there is no relavance at all in wearing white! At least not in biblical Christianity, however there are small offshoot denominations who do advocate wearing certain clothes or head coverings. There is no biblical reason to so so, in fact Paul says in the New Testament that because of Jesus we are set free from the Law, which even dictated what people could wear or eat to please God. The new covenant, salvation through Jesus, has no rules like that at all! Nothing we could ever do like that would be enough to save us from the justice of God- so Jesus paid our ransom on the cross! If you look at the Old Testament you see that people couldn't keep the Law; God knew that but 'so loved the world that He sent His only Son, that whoever believes in him may not die, but have eternal life' (John 3v16) Why do you think gospel means 'good news'??!! It certainly is! D

Hi Heather Your memory serves you quite well- Paul certainly had plenty to say about the use of tongues and other spiritual gifts! But he wasn't condemning their use, more making sure that believers and churches got their priorities right. he exercised this gift himself, so certainly agreed with it: I Corinthians 14, v18 says 'I speak in tongues more than any of you' but then qualifies its use in the next verse 'but in church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue' He was making sure that people then & now didn't focus on the gifts of the Spirit as an end in themselves, but as a tool to build up believers and the church, and spread the teachings of Jesus. Elsewhere in Corinthians, Paul speaks of the importance of interpretation of tongues, when they are given as a word from God to the church. He also talks about the condiotion of the heart- that it doesn't matter how many gifts we have, we 'are but a noisy gong or clanging cymbal, if we don't have love(for one another)' Denise

Hiya Meercat! Thanks for joining in this fascinating chat! Yes, we are talking about literally speaking another language, not learnt in any conscious way, and usually not known to others. A language given as a gift from God to someone who accepts the free gift of salvation offered by God, through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (in other words, a Christian), and has opened their hearts and minds to the presence of God by his Spirit. A note here to Christians who belong to churches where the gifts of the Spirit are not exercised: I am not in any way saying that there is a right or wrong view here, only that the power and gifts of God are available to all believers, if they choose. I have a car on my drive. It has no petrol in the tank, so it's not going anywhere and it won't make any noise, but it's still a car. Anyone who has accepted Jesus as their personal Saviour is a Christian, but God's offer of the filling of his Spirit, bringing power and gifts, is like putting petrol in the tank- the Christian is empowered to go and live the Christian life, and given the means to make a difference in this world! D

Thanks Denise for bringing up this interesting topic which will no doubt catch the attention of many peeps on here who are interested in mysticism/supernatural. On the subject, a conversation some years back, with a prison chaplain, stuck in my mind. Someone asked him how important to him, in his pastoral work with prisoners on the landings, was 'the gift of tongues'. This down to earth, plain speaking, Yorkshireman said without hesitation, 'I could no more do without it than a good pair of boots on my feet.' Not that he'd have been praying aloud in tongues - in that situation he wouldn't have lasted five minutes before the white coats appeared - but silently in his odd moments, as the Holy Spirit helped and inspired him to do the difficult job in hand. A job that this warm hearted, popular Anglican chaplain clearly enjoyed. Joyxx

Yes, Joy, isn't it interesting that so many people on here are interested in spiritual matters, whether they have their own strong views or are undecided! I have often read and heard mention of there being a 'God shaped hole' in all of us, like a missing piece in a jigsaw puzzle, and amny spend their lives trying this & that seeking to fill this gap. But just like a jigsaw, only one piece fits ultimately! God created us in his image, to have a relationship with him- when we find that we have found the piece to fit the gap! D

Joy, I understand your comments - but surely again, this chaplain meant he had the ability to communicate to people - whatever their background etc. Not that he had/used the ability to use a language which has no earthly basis?

Heather, I'm sure Joy will get back to you, as obviously she knew the person concerned, but you can be sure that if the phrase' speaking in tongues 'was used, with reference to a Christian, then that's exactly what was meant! The ability to speak a language never learnt, used under the control of your own mind & body, at will. Amazed? Puzzled? that's understandable, because by his very nature God is beyond our feeble human understanding! I've tried to keep this thread from being too personal, because I am trying to refer to believers worldwide, and biblical truth. But this seems a good place to boldly go, as in Star Trek, to a personal view! I was brought up a Catholic, and although I always believed God existed, the ritual and repetition of church did nothing for me. When I was 17, I heard a talk about how God had always had a plan for all of us, and the only way he could accomplish this was to allow his son to die in a terrible way. His plan was to have a personal relationship with each of us. To accept this offer, we just need to acknowledge that we need God, say sorry for doing it our way, and decide to trust Him in future. That made sense. Of course God must have had a purpose.. I accepted and have lived in the fullness of that promise ever since! But I am an ordinary busy mum of three, I don't wear socks with my sandals, I like wine, chocolate and music, going out with my friends...but I believe I am living life to its fullest because of my relationship with God. And part of that relationship is the time I take to worship, thank & pray to Him, sometimes within the limitations of English, and sometimes with the freedom that comes from using the new language God gave me when I started to follow Him! No, I don't understand the words, nor do i understand how I can do it, or how the more I exercise it, the more the language grows..I just know that, in common with millions of others, I can do this! And I choose to use it because it helps me draw closer to God, and be effective in my praying. After all, if God spoke a word and the stars came into being... then how can it be beyond him to cause his people to learn a new language??! D

Hi again Meercat! I would think there is a link between the word babble & the story of Babel, but I'm not wholly sure. God confused the languages of the people at Babel to separate them across the world. Doesn't that seem divisive for God, who loves unity? yes, but he did it to protect them, because previous to that they were all agreeing together to build a tower to heaven. God knew that such an enterprise would lead to idol worship and distract them from the truth about Himself. In Old Testament time God's spirit was moving in the world and rested upon some individuals such as prophets, but it was not until after Jesus' death and resurrection that the people of the world have had the opportunity to receive the blessings of the Holy Spirit from within. D

Sorry Meercat, had to look back to remember the last bit of your question! No, the languages of tongues are not like a god given secret code, whereby all believers can understand each other. Only on very rare occasions, where I guess God needs it to happen, can people understand others speaking in tongues. Even interpretation of tongues in public use is not strict translation, more a god impressed sense of what was said. Even the person speaking does not strictly understand what they are saying, but they know that they are getting through to God, without the barrier of learned language! By the way, Meercat, I love your questions, they are honest and straight! Keep them coming! Regards Denise