General Chat

You'll be glad to hear Eldrick, that I used to try and get to grips with 'modern maths', as it was called, during long, boring sermons. I can't say though that being able to count in anything other than base 10 has ever be of the least use to me.

Perhaps I should have stuck to English, and Thomas Hardy.

Yes, I did indeed. And the language is far superior. Give it a go.

ELDRICK I AGREE
BUT
I NEVER READ SHAKESPEAR
BUT
I BET YOU DID

It's only importance equates to that of shakespeare - works of fiction with a historical background on occasions.

No one suggests translating Will.

The youth of today would be better served reading something useful instead of being indocrinated into a load of bronze age nonsense.

The Authorized version of the Bible is written in the most beautiful English and will always have a place, I hope, in the English speaking Church. However, as it is now 500 years old it can hardly be said to be written in the vernacular. There must surely be a case for an, accurate, re-translation every century of so.

found this on a children's website

*What can we learn from this story? We need to use whatever "talent" God has given us. It might be money or ability. If we use it wisely, He will increase it so that our lives will glorify Him.*

http://gardenofpraise.com/bibl52s.htm

Or there is this one

*So the talents represent His Word, the Gospel of our Salvation. Those who sow it liberally into the hearts of their listeners find it multiplies. Where there were five, ten now appear. Where there were two, now there are four. Those who simply study it find their understanding multiplies. Richer and deeper meanings appear from passages they thought were familiar. Over and over they discover that as their understanding grows their faith deepens.

Those who bury it and pay no attention find its value diminishes the longer they ignore it. Not only are their friends and neighbors deprived by their lack of communication, but they themselves lose insight and understanding. Finally even what little they had is taken from them.*

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/parables/the-parable-of-the-talents/

I think it has something to do with making the most of what you have - doing something worthwhile with your talents, gifts and abilities. Doing good when you are able to.


Take Janey for example, if she had kept all her talents and gifts and abilities to herself, indeed buried them and never used them, nor used her imagination and skills ..........how many folk would have missed out on the help she has so obviously given to so many in those various ways?

I guess she would have been unfulfilled too.

:))

....I'm going to bed and can't get back for a while. Night all.

Do you know Janey that always got me too!

maybe someone can explain it to me?

Now now, I wasn't talking about "relevant", I was talking about *comprehensible* and *accurate*. ;)

If anybody wants my view on "relevant" ...

One of the first things that punctured my own belief balloon -- other than just the absurdity of things like people going to hell -- was that parable of the talents.

I believed in social justice, not in profiteering, and as far as I was concerned there was not the slightest question or shade of moral uncertainty: the servant who buried the filthy lucre was the one who deserved a reward! Having some god or their assistant tell me that what that servant did was bad and called for punishment ... nah, that was one of the beginnings of the end for me.

Never been sure whether my old "social gospel" church has managed to reconcile that one with what it professes!

Old habits die hard Janey lol, it's how I learnt it so 'trespasses' has meaning and relevance for me ( not to mention more poetry) ...but your version is certainly viable for today.

I suppose ....the question is more is ANY version relevant to todays youth? ...but that's another thread ;)

Well yes, Rose -- so why would someone in the 21st century substitute "debts" for "trespasses"??

forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us

I'd certainly go with something like

forgive us for our wrongdoings
as we forgive others for the wrong they do against us

(of the top of my head and without scrubbing it up well!)

OOOOHHHH
HECK AM I IN TROUBLE
COUSIN & HER HUSBAND
ARE VICARS

WELL
I STILL CANT UNDERSTAND IT
SORRY
COULDNT U NDERSTAND SHAKESPEAR
EITHER

It probably is Janey...but then if you substitute 'debts' and 'debtors' would that not make a youngster think of 'me mate who owes me a quid' or the banking system ? ;)

Well Rose, it's rather difficult for a young person to understand the meaning of "trespasses" at all, let alone what behind-meaning you might be talking about!

It's one thing to look at an antiquated version of the Bible in English as literature -- it is that, it's a period piece, it has a certain attraction to a modern ear that doesn't like direct speech.

But that antiquated English carries no theological weight of its own, verily it doesn't. It's just a translation, into the language as she wuz presumably spoke at the time.

The translators didn't even have access to resources that translators have access to these centuries later, and to the kind of collaboration that they engage in now.

Life might have been very different if a lot of people had understood (and understood now) that, for instance, the Hebrews were encouraged by their god to *give* an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, not to *take* them!

Thank you Somerset girl a very good add to this thread x

Rose after re-reading your post it brought my Grandad to memory he always used thee, thou and thy in his speech and so did his mother they were both chapel people x

There are some very interesting sites online, which I found some time back, where the 'original' texts, ie Greek and Hebrew are translated, sheds a whole different light on some phrases...

but if you don't understand the meaning 'behind' the words i guess it won't matter how modern or archaic they are?

that is a very good point Janey old is not always better to everyone x

Rose I agree entirely my faith is based around what I was taught by my Nan I was brought up on both but when the bible was read aloud it was always the AV I understood it well enough as a child and so did my children x

I must say personally i cannot bring myself to replace, as i was taught it, "trespasses and trespass" with 'sins' or 'debts' etc

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory. for ever and ever. Amen

for a church thats fashioned on Puritanistic values I'm surprised they want to let the AV go x