General Chat

Thank you Somerset girl a very good add to this thread x

Rose after re-reading your post it brought my Grandad to memory he always used thee, thou and thy in his speech and so did his mother they were both chapel people x

Well Rose, it's rather difficult for a young person to understand the meaning of "trespasses" at all, let alone what behind-meaning you might be talking about!

It's one thing to look at an antiquated version of the Bible in English as literature -- it is that, it's a period piece, it has a certain attraction to a modern ear that doesn't like direct speech.

But that antiquated English carries no theological weight of its own, verily it doesn't. It's just a translation, into the language as she wuz presumably spoke at the time.

The translators didn't even have access to resources that translators have access to these centuries later, and to the kind of collaboration that they engage in now.

Life might have been very different if a lot of people had understood (and understood now) that, for instance, the Hebrews were encouraged by their god to *give* an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, not to *take* them!

It probably is Janey...but then if you substitute 'debts' and 'debtors' would that not make a youngster think of 'me mate who owes me a quid' or the banking system ? ;)

WELL
I STILL CANT UNDERSTAND IT
SORRY
COULDNT U NDERSTAND SHAKESPEAR
EITHER

OOOOHHHH
HECK AM I IN TROUBLE
COUSIN & HER HUSBAND
ARE VICARS

Well yes, Rose -- so why would someone in the 21st century substitute "debts" for "trespasses"??

forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us

I'd certainly go with something like

forgive us for our wrongdoings
as we forgive others for the wrong they do against us

(of the top of my head and without scrubbing it up well!)

Old habits die hard Janey lol, it's how I learnt it so 'trespasses' has meaning and relevance for me ( not to mention more poetry) ...but your version is certainly viable for today.

I suppose ....the question is more is ANY version relevant to todays youth? ...but that's another thread ;)

Now now, I wasn't talking about "relevant", I was talking about *comprehensible* and *accurate*. ;)

If anybody wants my view on "relevant" ...

One of the first things that punctured my own belief balloon -- other than just the absurdity of things like people going to hell -- was that parable of the talents.

I believed in social justice, not in profiteering, and as far as I was concerned there was not the slightest question or shade of moral uncertainty: the servant who buried the filthy lucre was the one who deserved a reward! Having some god or their assistant tell me that what that servant did was bad and called for punishment ... nah, that was one of the beginnings of the end for me.

Never been sure whether my old "social gospel" church has managed to reconcile that one with what it professes!

Do you know Janey that always got me too!

maybe someone can explain it to me?

I think it has something to do with making the most of what you have - doing something worthwhile with your talents, gifts and abilities. Doing good when you are able to.


Take Janey for example, if she had kept all her talents and gifts and abilities to herself, indeed buried them and never used them, nor used her imagination and skills ..........how many folk would have missed out on the help she has so obviously given to so many in those various ways?

I guess she would have been unfulfilled too.

:))

....I'm going to bed and can't get back for a while. Night all.

found this on a children's website

*What can we learn from this story? We need to use whatever "talent" God has given us. It might be money or ability. If we use it wisely, He will increase it so that our lives will glorify Him.*

http://gardenofpraise.com/bibl52s.htm

Or there is this one

*So the talents represent His Word, the Gospel of our Salvation. Those who sow it liberally into the hearts of their listeners find it multiplies. Where there were five, ten now appear. Where there were two, now there are four. Those who simply study it find their understanding multiplies. Richer and deeper meanings appear from passages they thought were familiar. Over and over they discover that as their understanding grows their faith deepens.

Those who bury it and pay no attention find its value diminishes the longer they ignore it. Not only are their friends and neighbors deprived by their lack of communication, but they themselves lose insight and understanding. Finally even what little they had is taken from them.*

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/parables/the-parable-of-the-talents/

The Authorized version of the Bible is written in the most beautiful English and will always have a place, I hope, in the English speaking Church. However, as it is now 500 years old it can hardly be said to be written in the vernacular. There must surely be a case for an, accurate, re-translation every century of so.

It's only importance equates to that of shakespeare - works of fiction with a historical background on occasions.

No one suggests translating Will.

The youth of today would be better served reading something useful instead of being indocrinated into a load of bronze age nonsense.

ELDRICK I AGREE
BUT
I NEVER READ SHAKESPEAR
BUT
I BET YOU DID

Yes, I did indeed. And the language is far superior. Give it a go.

You'll be glad to hear Eldrick, that I used to try and get to grips with 'modern maths', as it was called, during long, boring sermons. I can't say though that being able to count in anything other than base 10 has ever be of the least use to me.

Perhaps I should have stuck to English, and Thomas Hardy.

Why not translate into plain understandabl english,its been translated from latin into olde english ,then it got translated into saxon,then back into english where it was reduced into 66 books, who knows what in it is real or not ,maybe it was written as a Catherine Cookson type novel in the first place,,}}}

A LOCAL HOME TUTOR HAD PROBLEMS WITH SOME
OF THE LOCL LADS, ,,READING AND WRITTING TILL SHE USED A BIT OF A SLY ONE
GOT THEM TO TELL HER
PRICES OF SCRAP METAL,HOW MUCH TO DO A GARDEN CLEARENCE
THAT SORT,
THEN SAID I CANT REMEMBER ALL THAT
WILL YOU WRITE IT ALL DOWN FOR ME
THEY DID

The Unauthorized Version - Truth and fiction in the bible by Robin Lane Fox is well worth a read.
Eldrick, I agree with your sentiments re the youth of today but I must also admit to being a little surprised when you implied there are no modern translations of Shakespeare. Is that true? I will be searching the library later!

Big grin on face ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ waves to Eldrick :))