General Chat

To my mind deliberately starving a child to death IS murder.

IF they are found to be of unsound mind then let them serve their sentence in a suitable institution rather than a prison...but not make any allowances or give them a lesser a sentence. Life would do.

BUT to not call it murder is wrong in my opinion.

My sympathies are with those poor children....justice needs to be done for their sakes

If that makes me appear backward or thick.....so be it.

Janey, there are plenty of people "do gooders" in this country who would rather side with a murderer, call em "mentally ill" as if it's an "excuse" and try and get em off on that basis...............
sorry it happens............seen it time and time again........

here here Rosie..............to bloody right...................let's kill a child and blame "mental Illness" fgs, next we're be blaming the "I did it cos I've just given up smoking"

No reason, No excuse................if someone is genuinely diagnosed with a mental illness and if what they "say" in this case is anything to go by, then I say, children should be removed from the care of that person!!

Why didn't the neighbours notice anything?

She may have slipped through the school net by leaving the country and returning back to the UK.

Why isn't there legislation to ensure all children entering the UK are registered with the local educational welfare officer / Health visitor for occassional home visitsto prevent this from being picked up? I assume that the family was registered as living legally in the UK - and didn't sneak in.

Elizabeth, I don't know about the mother but her partner was born in Birmingham .

JG, I dont think Rosie was saying they were not illnesses.., i think she meant that they were not Illnesses to use as excuses to commit murder.

Rose: "Janey, we all become indignant about ill informed opinions ! but just because mental illness is a real and cruel reality does not mean that psychiatrists are infallible does it? that they never get a diagnosis wrong, any more than a doctor working on physical symptoms might?"

I dunno what the relevance is.

Is there some suggestion - by someone qualified to suggest it - that a psychiatrist got a diagnosis wrong in this case?

The fact that someone has a mental illness is not an *automatic excuse* for bad behaviour.

But it can make a person *not criminally responsible* because they were unable to appreciate the nature and quality of their acts.

That is what a court - whether judge or jury - decides, after hearing all the evidence.

I don't think anybody here did that - hear all the evidence. Or receive proper instructions from a judge about how to assess it.


"You were happy enough to tar home educators with the narcissistic, criminal, mentally ill brush...and your qualifications to do so are?????"

If I had actually done that, I would answer the question.

As it stands, it's just another false statement with some question marks after it.

Sorry.


Can nobody copy and paste?


Yup, it is my opinion, based on considerable observation, that "home-schooling" parents are, for the most part, narcissists. (Very often that's the father, who is the one who insists that the mother stay home and "home-school" the children. How many men quit work to do that? Hahahaha.) I suppose if one had a child with a disability that the public school system genuinely could not accommodate ...

I DID NOT SAY that home-schoolers are criminals or have mental illnesses.

WHAT I SAID very plainly meant that there are criminals and people with mental illnesses who home-school.

Hey, just like there are criminals and people with mental illnesses who teach in public schools. And work at McDonalds. And swim in the ocean.

I really, really, really think you can see the difference between what I said and what you're pretending I said.

Why do we constantly have to play this stupid game here?




en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

A narcissist and what he did to a person with a mental illness, and thus to their children.

Whirls I read it that way too.

And to my mind there is NO excuse to starve a child and KILL her.

Whatever the state of mind.

Nothing on earth will ever change my mind on this.

It's murder pure and simple x

I'm still curious. Who are these people who would rather "side with" a murderer than ... whatever?

What kinds of people side with murderers? Why?

They'd have to be mentally ill themselves, I guess ... or just plain evil. Are there lots of just plain evil people where you are?


Why is it easier to believe in all these just plain evil people siding with murderers, so the murderers can escape their consequences, than to believe that mental illness can make a person unable to grasp reality and/or to appreciate the consequences of their actions?

I can only guess that it is because that would leave a lot of people with their pointer fingers unoccupied.

((shrug))

On the news, I saw a neighbour with a small baby, who said she used to go and visit and saw the lock on the cupboards etc, asked why and was told so the children didn't just help themselves to the food. Now that neighbour must have seen the children looking so malnourished and seen the conditions they lived in, all sleeping on one mattress etc so why did she not say something to the authorities? I don't know how she can live with herself.
A teacher apparently had already reported that she thought the little girl wasn't being fed before she was taken out of school, I am not sure what happened to that report, whether it was investigated or not, but for sure those social workers should have made sure they saw the children, not just gone away, ' because they were out'
And yes, the father should have tried harder to see the children and make sure they were ok, but who knows whether the stepfather threatened him or made things too difficult to get in to see the childen.
It's a dreadful case and yet again mistakes have been made, because the social workers have too many people to look after a lot of the time, and because they aren't gritty enough to persevere and make sure they check everything every time they visit, not just going back to the office and saying the family were out.

Poor little girl didn't deserve to die in this cruel way and I just hope she is at peace now, bless her.

The murderers will get their just desserts inside, no fear.

Lizx

.........and they wernt mentally impaired to have sex, or even know to go to a hospital to give birth and if it was a home birth shame on anyone who was in that house who should have helped , and if they were clever enough to hide evidence of slow torture cause thats what it is then again they were well enough to feed those kids , i pressume these people did not have messages in there head to strip of in supermarkets or thinking their children so evil why take them home from the hospital, why do people want to protect these monsters is unreal use the money on extra social workers , so they have more holidays to discuss in meetings.

i will say sorry to any good social workers on here or anywhere and my comments are not aimed at them i can only say what i have seen.

sorry edited, I removed my post and sent it directly to the person to whom it was addressed. This thread is not about her opinions or mine.

I suppose that if there is a Proper Inquirey into this, the usual "Trite reply" will be the Usual, Lessons will be learned. What a load of Codswallop.These People Murdered that Child,whether they were sane or not, it was Murder,and should be treated as such.There seems to be too many people interested in making excuses and trying to get lesser charges for people like that.Perhaps they think that we are all Mad and cannot know the difference. As far as I,m concerned Murder is Murder and they should be put away permenently.**M**.

Well i'm sorry,, but how many times have we been here, with all these cases of abused, starved and tortured children, all known to the SS.
They say every time they will learn from it and lots of enquiries go on, but it happens again, and again,,, if they have a child that needs investigating then they should make sure they see the child, not get fobbed off by the parent/ carer that does not allow them acsess. (ss say "oh ok, i'll come back when the bruises have heald then :)" )
The RSPCA get it right, why can't the SS?

:(

Yes Parents are obliged to register with another LEA but unless the child has been expelled the LEA is not obliged to find a place for a certain number of weeks. Some parents haven't re-registered their child and have the potential to slip through the net.

Lessons are learned by these awful cases. Sadly sometimes the system fails for what ever reason. Everyone has a due to report concerns about vulnerable people of any age. Make sure you raise it with more than one agencies - ie the school, local Nhs patient records centre so they can inform their gp, Age concern (if relevent) and the Police. Never assume that actions is being taken. Continue to report to social services if situation remain a concern or get worse.