General Chat

A bit touchy maybe and possibly a ;'man thing', but..
What is an Illegal war and what isn't ?
If the Powers That Be in the UN vote yes its legal.
If they vote no (majority) its illegal.
If a country goes to war without any backing from the UN is it legal or illegal, for example, to take back what was taken from them.
And is the United Nations (like the old League of Nations) of any use to anyone. After all, if there is any 'cleaning up' to do, it's the usual faces, and this comes under the heading, by some, "It must be for oil"... when they don't go to 'clean up' - "Where are they, there musn't be any oil"... Must admit here, I'm a bit of a Yankee Fan.... John

John if your refering to the Iraq....yep in my opinion it was illegal....Britain and Blair was far to quick to jump in with reason of the WMD and he was right as none was ever found.

So not for oil Haley - If you were on the United Nations when would you vote to go for war or to allow others to go to war, for what reasons..?

I dont think I would like that responibility ....only to defend my country really....I am not political
minded...at all.....so to go to war to protect the USA investment hmmmmm I really dont know.. John

Once they realised there were no weapons in Iraq, we were told that Saddam Hussain was a cruel dictator who squandered all the oil revenues on palaces and not the people.....and I will not forget Hussain's words.......you will never be able to govern this country......

If the main reason were not oil, what about Dafur where mass genocide is taking place and unbelievable cruelty, what about Mugabe, what about Korea who were threatening the U.S. with nuclear weaponse (since found they did not have the capability)........why not get rid of those Dictators, because there was nothing to be gained monetarily from it...... politics over for me....

Agree with both you and Haley Sally - but when 'they' go to war/invade a country like Darfur or Mugabe's - then it's suddenly "US sabre ratling again"... Can;t win really. John..

John if the joint forces can use the excuse that it was to remove Saddam, why not other dictators.......answer, no money in it.....

War is evil for what ever reason,its always the Innocents that suffer.
saying that there are times when war is the only option the 1st and second world wars being two of them.
I do know that if Iraq did not have Oil then there would never have been an Invasion,it sickens me to know that Britain had any part of it to be honest!
the Americans made a mess of it just like they did in vietnam:-(( only this time we were there licking their boots!!
only my view of course!

You could well be right Roxanne and Sally. Are these the same views regarding Afghan. And if they went in to Darfur or to relieve Magabe of his duties would that be right.?

......and I agree with it Roxanne....

I got interested in he World Wars when I was 9 and on a visit to Holland our teachers took us to the cemetary at Arnhem.......I can still feel what I felt then when I saw row upon row of white crosses.....

I pestered my Dad about what he did in the war.....he did not want to talk about it, but I found his army paybook, it cannot lie as to where he was.....Dunkirk, North Africa and Italy, where he got badly injured.....

I cannot forget the memories of my Dad in old age, crying his eyes out because he had to fight.....I will so no more than that.......he said,.......there is no glory in war......there were many times when I wished there was a big tree I could hide behind......poor b*ggar.......they did not have post traumatic stress therapy for those soldiers.....

I won't say any more John, not that I can't or that I disagree with your thread, only that it is bringing up memories of my Dad at the moment.....x sally

Afghanistan,Has a huge ? for me, I can see the reasons for it,But to be 100% honest I really dont know enough about it,Perhaps someone can give me more Information and then I will make my mind up.
Mugabe,Is a Monster! yes,I think that country needs help,but they wont get it will they,they have nothing worth fighting for,not my view but thats how the powers that be see it,dont you think?
Why, Iraq?? I know saddam was classed as a tyrant,and maybe he was,but I dont think many of his people were starving,or were they?? Enlighten me?Please:-))

Sorry Sally.....John xx

Still as relavant today as back then:

Dulce Et Decorum Est



Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned out backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!--An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori.*

*It is right and honorable to die for your country

Would you Colin ?

To add on to what Roxanne said.....is Iraq any better off for not having Sadam ? How many have lost their lives ?

true,Hayley!
I often wonder about that.

Hayley, I couldn;t tell you. But what i'm after, is what makes a legal war or an Illegal war. If a man gives his life in an illegal war and another gives his life in a legal war, who has the power to decide..

Hi all,

The UN are week and follow the big man (USA) whether right or wrong! If you read the documentation regarding how they get to a legal or illegal conclusion it will make your head truly hurt! its all about definition and how it is interpreted.

WMD.. may or may not have been in Iraq. So, as has been said, next step blame Saddam Hussein. Well, I have met a a Kurdish chap who's family live in northern Iraq. I met him at a centre in Dover. He told me a very sad story. A story that i know is true from other sources. A story that has not been publicised.

A Kurdish town in Northern Iraq was visited by Mr Hussein's people. way before the first Allied invasion.
80,000, yes that's 80,000, people were murdered by said people. I will not tell you good folks how these poor people passed.!

One of many true events that i know of around the world!

So, my point is, how do we, as human beings decide legal or illegal in the war sense? it is very difficult, i for one certainly do not know the answer..

I said earlier that the UN are week! I stand by this, however i do sympathise with the individuals that form this organisation.

GA

Well,Its governments that decide,but that doesn't make them morally right,does it??
but if your a soldier you go where your country sends you.

I wonder as well....that Afganistan is the war on terrisom (sp) but if a group of say French students bombed the usa or the UK would they flood their country with troops.....by the way no way am I slagging of our troops