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Hello again, Have told my sister the good? news and she has been busy. Where could George have been during the 1901 census as he turns up again getting married in Manchester in 1905! Fred also turns up again in 1904 but we have to look further into that one.

Eric, I'm so glad you're making progress - it can be very frustrating when you get stuck at a certain point in your search. My theory is; gather all the information together you have on that person...find anyone who remotely fits the criteria...and then disprove they're the one you're after!! Sometimes you get lucky and make a connection and if you don't at least you've ruled out 1/2 the country! Best of luck Emma.

Hi Eric good to see you making progress, hope things keep getting better for you. good luck Jill

Thank you all again. I have followed Caudle to try to confirm this name change and it looks/ed promising. Older brothers Edwin whose birth 2 years before the marriage I can not confirm is not on 1901. George Frederick turned up on cue. Alfred (dad) became more promising. I found him as Alfred CHARLES so the transition to Frederick Charles I can imagine but absent from 1901. Ernest was even better. He turns up in 1901 as a cabinet maker. If I could confirm him in Plymouth before WW2 as such I shall be so near. Yet another request (to Plymouth) I think. You are wonderful just for the excitement I've had. Onward

sorry to disappoint you Eric but i think that just how it was transcribed pedigree isnt maiden name. been trying to find Elizas maiden name. Glad it looks so we made a break through thanks to Emma take care Jill p.s gonna delete the pedigree bit so we dont get confused anymore ok.

Thank you Emma for that stroke of genius and to you Jill for the add-ons. The eldest son Edwin seems to have appeared from before the marriage! Is Pedigree Eliza's maiden name that was attached to the family name until she died or have I misunderstood. I shall see if I can confirm this name. I rather fancy being a pedigree in preference to a caudle.

Husband Edwin Caudle Birth: 1852 Avening, Gloucester, England Christening: Marriage: < 1879> <Minchinhmpton, , Gloucester, England> Death: Burial: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Wife Eliza Birth: 1851 Brockworth, Gloucester, England Christening: Marriage: < 1879> <Minchinhmpton, , Gloucester, England> Death: Burial: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Children ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. George Caudle Male Birth: 1880 Minchinhmpton, , Gloucester, England Christening: Death: Burial:

Deaths Sep 1889 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caudle Eliza 39 Gloucester 6a 154

Thanks Emma that looks very promising I think that will give Eric a good lead. As Emma said none of the Frederick Caldwells in the 1891 census have a father Edwin. hope this helps you progress Eric Jill

Eric, I've looked through the 1891 for you and can find nothing that fits anywhere for Caldwell or Cauldwell or similar. However, there is this record which despite the surname difference otherwise fits nb. that Fred perhaps is Alfred and not Frederick: Edwin Caudle, head, wid, 39, carpenter, Avening Gloucestershire Edwin Caudle, son, 14, tinworker, Birmingham George J Caudle, son, 11, Gloucestershire Minchinhampton Alfred B Caudle, son, 9, Sandhurst Ernest Caudle, son, 7, Sandhurst Margaret Head, lodger, wid, 57, charwoman, Ireland Dublin at 5 Bedford Street, St. John the Baptist, St. Michael, Gloucester The family are found in 1881 as: Edwin Caudle, head, mar, 29, Avening Gloucestershire, carpenter Eliza Caudle, wife, mar, 30, Brockworth Gloucestershire, carpenter's wife Edwin J Caudle, son, 4, Birmingham George F Caudle, son, 1, Minchinhampton Gloucestershire Hope this helps, Emma.

Eric the list i gave you above is all the fredericks there were in 1891 census and a few a bit older i will go through them and check if they have father edwin. I pay to access the 1891 census from ancestry about £30 quarterly

Thanks for the suggestions Jill. I have trawled 1837 trying to find a sequence of boys' births that might fit the family profile. If dad was on the 1891 census his dad might have been alive too or he might turn up with grand parents near Bristol. How do I get access to the 1891 census?

You could look on the 1837 online site for his birth if you think its 1880/81 see if there a Frederick Caldwell born in them years. theres a charge of £5 you get 55 searches, Im a bit stuck as to what else to tell you to do Eric. Anyone else out there got any ideas? Jill

I wondered if it was worth concentrating on the father Edwin in the census and trying to find him with any of the sons mentioned before. And working from there? what do you think?

HelloJill, hello Ruth I hope you do not mind getting the same answer. My sister has the marriage cert. on which dad is shown as a batchelor, travelling salesman (and we know their reputation) age 46. His father was Edwin deceased, formerly a jobbing builder. Does this go anywhere. We have no idea how old his dad was or the wife's name or where they came from. There is a concentration of Caldwells in Lancs. but I have no way of sorting t'other from which.

Have you got the marriage certificate for your parents Eric?

Another bit of info. though I'm not sure it helps. Mum said that dad's mother died when he was about 7 and they had a housekeeper looking after 4 boys. Grandfather was a jobbing builder so how did he afford it and were there no other close family to help? Then dad's father died when dad was 15 hence the move to the Bristol area to grandparents but whether all 4 boys went and whether to maternal/paternal grparents we do not know. Should I post this elsewhere and see whether there are other sources of info? Incidentally he said his name was Frederick CHARLES Caldwell but that seems to hinder searches more than help.

Thank you Jill, I have looked on the 1901 census but he does not appear. We wonder whether he was on fishing boats by then because he had his hand blown off minesweeping before he met mum so presumably in WW1 or shortly afterwards. He was not older than 46 when he married mum which means he may have been born as late as 1888 but mum obviously did not think so. If he was 60/61 in 1941 (when I was aged 1) he would have been born in 1880/81 possibly too late for that census. I have tried FamilySearch IGI for the 1881 info but can not find a firm link.

Hi Eric, I see your problem, happens alot in families dont it. Have u looked up the 1881 census for Caldwells? or the 1901 census? Do any of the Fredericks ive mentioned look of any interest? I will keep looking for the other names on 1891 census and see if i can get any of the names together in a family. Jill

Thanks for looking up Frederick. I wish I could tell you his age to within 30 years. He died in 1941. My mum put on his death certificate "aged 60", but when she married him 7 years earlier in 1934 he had put age 46 on the marriage certificate, so mum thought he was at least 9 years older than he said. This disparity in age was why none of mum's family attended the wedding in Sussex. The only clue we have is that he spoke of these brothers but we do not know how old they were of course. Any advice?