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Hi, would anyone know how to trace a marriage if its not showing on any census info? Ive seen the 2 people on the 1881/91/01 census but no trace of them before. They are Maurice and Ellen Chryst in Sheffield. Neither them or the kids that appear on the later census appear on anything before 1881 but were born before then. Im stuck on what to do now. thanks claire

Hi Clair, The census's that you have seen, where does it say each person was born ? and the oldest child where was it born. You can normally work out a date for marriage by the age of the oldest child and look in the district the oldest child was born. Its a start .. then you can work your way outwards. There is a slight possibility that these two people were NOT married, it has been known, but the woman would have taken the mans name just to hide embarresment or something similar. I'm presuming you have checked for the marriage on FreeBMD or 1837online ?? Give us some more details to go on .. ages and districts etc on each census .. we may be able to look as well .. an extra few pairs of eyes wouldn't go a miss !! Elaine :-)

Hello Claire On 1881 it says Maurice was born in Austria, so you will not find a birth for him. His wife & children were born in Sheffield, it is possible their marriage took place in Austria Sam

Hello Claire What an unusual name!! There are quite a lot of entries on FreeBMD, most of them in Sheffield. I'm sure a lot of them must be yours.

Just incase ... http://freebmd(.)rootswem(.)com/cgi/search.pl = FreeBMD http://www.1837online(.)com/Trace2web/index.jsb = 1837online Hope this helps. remove the brackets before entering the address in the search bar. Elaine :-) Having read the previous messages, I'm inclined to go with the option of them having been married in Austria !! but you must check all possibilities.

Using the decoder, these ones are on the same census page in 1901 Frances CHRYST 38 38 1863 Yorks Sheffield Sheffield Sheffield Dressmaker Maurice CHRYST 70 70 1831 Austria Naturalized British Subject Sheffield Sheffield Foreman In Steel Warehouse Kate CHRYST 34 34 1867 Yorks Sheffield Sheffield Sheffield Cabinet Case Liner This is another group together in 1901 Harold CHRYST 41 41 1860 Yorks Sheffield Attercliffe Cum Darnall Sheffield Steel Warehouse Man Nellie CHRYST 9 9 1892 Yorks Sheffield Attercliffe Cum Darnall Sheffield Maurice CHRYST 3 3 1898 Yorks Sheffield Attercliffe Cum Darnall Sheffield Kate CHRYST 7 7 1894 Yorks Sheffield Attercliffe Cum Darnall Sheffield Elizabeth CHRYST 45 45 1856 Yorks Milton Attercliffe Cum Darnall Sheffield (I see Karol has become Harold!) This was the only other CHRYST, he was alone, but could have been living with others of a different surname. Frank CHRYST 33 33 1868 Yorks Sheffield Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire Engine Fitter

I think this is Paulina in 1901, I used the decoder and she was the only Paulina born in Sheffield Paulina HUTT 36 36 1865 Yorks Sheffield Heeley Yorkshire Harry HUTT 3 3 1898 Yorks Sheffield Heeley Yorkshire Maurice HUTT 6 6 1895 Yorks Sheffield Heeley Yorkshire Frank HUTT 39 39 1862 Warwick Coventry Heeley Yorkshire Moulders Tool Forger This is the marriage on Ancestry CHRIST, Pauline 1890 December Marriages South Yorkshire West Riding of Yorkshire 9c 855 Hutt, Frank 1890 December Marriages South Yorkshire West Riding of Yorkshire 9c I bet she isn't the only one of the family mis-transcribed as CHRIST(Or some other name) at one time or another Probably explains why you could be missing some info.

Thanks to all of you the replied, i thought it would be simple tracing the Chryst side as surname so rare but is proving to be a nightmare. I have checked free bmd, the only marriages on there are Karol, Constance and Bertha Chryst. The latter 2 are daughters of Maurice and Ellen. I dont know who Karol is but he has appeared on other info I have. There was a Sibeta Chryst on the 1891 census as a daughter of Ellen and Maurice but she wasnt on the 1881 nor 1901. All the children and Ellen were born in Sheffield so i do think Ellen and the children were all from Sheffield as we all still are. Its weird though that I have gone through all the records on 1837 online through the 60's when most of them were born but none of them are on there, the only Chryst to appear is an Aloizy Alexander Chryst born 1861 but he is not connected to anyone else but must be a relation as also born Sheffield. Im confused now (doesnt take much, lol).

Smiley, I am very interested in the Paulina info you have just given, thats the first lead i have on her. Its so interesting that her son on there is called Maurice. This name seems to be running through the family quite alot. My great grandfather and his eldest son were also Maurices. Thanks again for this. Claire

Claire I posted at the same time as you (above) so you have another marriage now, and an explanation of why you are possibly having trouble, because Paulina was mistranscribed as Pauline Christ. Karol was also born in 1861 (according to dates on 1881 census) could he and your other 1861 birth be one & the same? Sam

Claire Harol is their eldest son on 1881, here he is in 1891 Chryst, Karol 31 Sheffield, Yorkshire Lodger Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire In 1901 he becomes Harold, Karol is in keeping with the other Austrian names, so a mis-transcription again possibly. Sam

Hi Sam, I totally forgot about them being illiterate in the 1800's, no wonder i cant find them, i bet most of them are down as Crist or Christ! I get these spellings of my name now, haha! Karol and Aloizy born 1861 are 2 different people, I think Maurice Chryst 1831 came over with someone else, but i need to keep looking this. Karol and Harol could very much be the same person like you say. Funny thing is, i was always led to believe we were of Polish decent so was shocked to see Austria. But then on the 1891 census, it shows Maurice Chryst born Poland!!! I do appreciate all your help and everyone else who replied. Claire xx

It's all very interesting Claire and very easy to get caught uo in even though it's not my family, so I hope I haven't over-stepped the mark with my investigations !! The "Sibeta" you mention is in fact Kate, I just checked the original census image, she is 24 in '91 isn't she, Kate is 14 in '81 & 34 in 1901, so that confirms that one. Sam P.S Do a search on 1881 for Chryst, in Austria, no christian name, there are lots! Some in the USA also, if you allow for the Christ mistranscription too.

Hiya Sam, Of course you havnt overstepped the mark, i am really appreciating all your help. Im new to all this so you can see why i am so confused when they mix Kate/Sibeta. They are nothing like! I have found Paulina's child Maurice Cleaver Hutt on 1837 online but didnt give mothers maiden name to confirm it definately was Paulina. Did they only start putting on mothers maiden names after a certain date? I had noticed all the Chryst in USA, i dont even want to go there yet, haha, its hard enough trying to trace the ones in Sheffield. I noticed there was alot of Christ in Austria which would figure some old tale my grandad told me that someone in the family changed the spelling to Chryst when they arrived in this country. Claire xx

Hi Claire Ahh.... The Christ's changed themselves to Chryst's did they, not surprising I suppose, is it pronounced the same way? Like "Christ" I mean? I assumed your name was pronounced "Chrissed" I see you're one of only two people on this website entering that name (I guess you're related) Mother's maiden names were not recorded on the register until about 1911/12 I think, I have a 1909 birth, but no maiden name, and a 1916 one with a maiden name, on 1837 online. They are on the certificates though, you would have to get Paulina's marriage or Maurice's birth cert to confirm she was a Chryst. Good luck with all this, I think it can be a lot easier when you have an unusual name, but it is also far easier to mis-transcribe Sam

Hiya Sammy, I thought i was the only one searching Chryst, i havnt seen anyone else, but then again a lady did contact me regarding someone in my tree and she was related to Constance Chryst. I am sure we are related but am still searching that vital link! I think i come from Harol/Karol/Harold as my great grandfather was Maurice Chryst born around 1897, there is one that matches on the 1901 census but i am needing to get some certificates to prove this. Do you know how much it is roughly to get certificates? I think they pronounced Chryst/Christ the same way and it is pronounced Chryst as in crystal. Although when people call me at work they think its christ and in jesus christ!!! I do appreciate what you have found for me very much. Claire xxxx

Hi Claire You're more than welcome Certificates are £7 if you have the GRO number, this is the reference next to the name on FreeBMD & 1837 online. It costs more if you cannot be that specific, they're easy to order online at www.gro.gov.uk although they can be ordered from the register office local to the event too. GRO were taking a very long time to send them out at one stage, so I ordered one from Falmouth thinking I would get it within days, but no, the birth was registered there but all records had been transferred to another office in Cornwall so my request had to be forwarded, I waited about 14 days in the end. GRO are posting out a lot quicker now so I order online and pay by CC, much simpler. Name pronounciations.....Tell me about it! My surname is Fivash, it's very very rare anyone pronounces it correctly first time. The spellings we get on letters are amusing too! Fuish Fiveash Firash Fibash Vivash and Fivass....LOL! Sam (BTW It's actually pronounced Five-ash, or as I like to say if I have to write it, 5ash)

Hi Sam, Thanks for that, when i get paid next week i think i will order a couple of certificates to try to connect myself and living relatives to all the info i currently have. Yes the pronunciation thing is quite annoying but funny at times, i get crisp quite alot. i just spell it when people ask for it now. Claire xx

Claire and Sammy Just thought I'd let you know I have a birth certificate from 1876 and the mothers maiden name is on it. Perhaps it was down to the individual registrar. Claire Have you actually sent for Maurice Hutts birth cert? Jeanette

Hi Jeanette, no i havnt sent for maurice hutts certificate yet, i did try to find him on 1837 but couldnt find him, i thought was best to check this way first. i will try again i think later. I have seen maiden names earlier in the 1800's too so maybe is the individual rgistrars that do this. Regards Claire