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I'm trying to find Francis Howard in 1871. I've tried all sorts of ways but cannot find him at all. He is either down as a bad mis-transcription or has been missed off totally. These are his details. Francis Howard born c1825 in Arkendale. Arkendale is near Knaresborough. He was a shoemaker/cordwainer. He died in Leeds in 1880. His wife Sarah is in Knaresborough with some of the children at Marquis of Granby, York Place. She is down as Head and Married, which suggests he was living elsewhere. Maybe he was in prison or hospital. There is a Frank Howard in Holbeck and I know this is definitely not him. I have traced him living in Arkendale up until 1849. Knaresborough 1851/1852. Wortley 1853. Armley 1857. Knaresborough 1859/1860. If anyone has any ideas and is up for the challenge, I would be most grateful. Regards, Nancy.

Hi Does he have a middle name he could be using? Julie

Hi Julie, Thanks for taking an interest. I don't know of any middle name but that is not to say he didn't have one. Regards, Nancy:-)

Hi Nancy, I would serious look at every entry/image on the census with correct first name, dob, and area he was born and maybe was living. Sue Smith last night found my William & Clara Shawcross as William & Clara SCOTT. It clearly says SCOTT on the image ... but I KNOW its them cos they are all correct name and ages ... plus, the address is correct for them as well. Hate to worry you ... but this is possibly why so many people are struggling to find rellies on census's. The enumerator in my case, had more than just a FEW Sherries ... I think he must have had a barrel of Rum. Don't give up searching. Its worth it in the end. Dancer x

Hi Dancer, Unfortunately, I've tried all you've suggested and still can't find him. That's why I've put it 'out to tender', because I can't think of any other ways to try, and am hoping that someone might just be lucky. Regards, Nancy :-)

Hi Tina, It's definitely his death in 1880 as his daughter has registered the death. Don't know why his wife didn't though. Maybe they were seperated. I thought at first that the Frank Howard in Holbeck might have been him with a new wife, but it isn't as he is still there in 1881. I just don't know where to look next. Regards, Nancy :-)

nudge in case any daytime people have any luck.

Good morning Tina (sorry afternoon), I've just discovered something which throws a different light on it. On IGI there is a list of 6 Christenings with the same parents William and Jane. It has Francis as being born c1815!! Obviously this could be a different guy, maybe a younger brother, but in the same batch is the Christening of Francis and Sarah's daughter Elizabeth. Looks like I'll have to check out the parish records to see if there were 2 Francis's. But if it's the right guy then his death cert has the wrong age as well as the 1851 census by around 10yrs. Could be that he was living a lie and was up to no good in 1871. Oh what a headache!! Regards, Nancy :-((

Thanks Tina. I haven't got him in 1841 or 1861 but in 1851 he is living in Knaresborough. Kirkgate 2283/91 Francis Howard, head, mar, 25, Shoe maker (master), Yorkshire Arkendale Sarah Howard, wife, mar, 28, Yorkshire Knaresborough Elizabeth Hoawrd, daur, 4, Yorkshire Arkendale Jane Howard, daur, 3, Yorkshire Arkendale Regards, Nancy.

nudged up for weekenders

Nancy Have you seen this one from 1871? George Howard 1825 Arkendale, Yorkshire, England Head Arkendale Yorkshire George Wm Howard 1870 Arkendale, Yorkshire, England Son Arkendale Yorkshire Harriett Howard 1861 Arkendale, Yorkshire, England Daughter Arkendale Yorkshire Mary Howard 1828 Leming, Yorkshire, England Wife Arkendale Yorkshire Mary Jane Howard 1862 Arkendale, Yorkshire, England Daughter Arkendale Yorkshire Sarah Howard 1868 Arkendale, Yorkshire, England Notice George was born the same year and same place as Francis, maybe brothers/twins, or is Francis married twice and using two different names tee hee. Cheers Victor

Hi Victor, Thank you, yes I have seen that one. I think George is his brother as on IGI it has George born 1824 and a Francis born 1815. Don't know if this is my Francis as 1851 census has him born 1825/26 but his death cert has him born 1827/28. I'm going to check the 1841 census and see if I can tie them together and get a clearer idea of his rough age. And when 1861 comes online I'll check that as well. Regards, Nancy :-)

Nancy - I checked 1841 this morning - singularly unhelpful - he was age 15 and apprentice shoemaker in household of Days - forgotten first name of head but he was shoemaker.

Thanks Jools, At least I know the one born in 1815 is not mine then. I can narrow his birth down to 1821-1826. I would assume that so far the most accurate date I have would be from his death cert making it 1826/27. Regards, Nancy.

Hi Tina, Yes, that is the very same rogue. Doesn't seem to live with his wife much, does he? Can't have liked her or her him. In 1851 she was in Kirkgate, Knaresborough and in 1871 she was at the Marquis of Granby, York Place, Knaresborough. She should have with her Jane (12), James (9), Ann (8), William (4), Frederick (2) and Francis (1). No wonder he was never at home with all those kids. I've only got 2 and I hide myself away with the computer for some peace and quiet. LOL. Thank you for looking. Regards, Nancy :-))

Wow - Thanks Tina. You see, they say you can't be in two places at once but this guy begs to differ. Maybe, because he is down twice for 1861 it meant that he didn't have to be counted in 1871!! It gets stranger by the day. Many thanks for all the work you've done on this - (don't like to mention that we still can't find what we were supposed to, though) LOL Think I'll go watch the end of Indiana Jones before that gorgeous Jean-Christophe is on again. Have a good evening. Regards, Nancy. :-)) ps have you noticed how both Francis and Elizabeth have aged by 1 year between Arkendale and Knaresborough. Must be in a different time zone.

Just a thought - but have you tried the names in the reverse order - i.e. surname first then christian name? - just a thought - it would be plausible. Good luck with the search, Stephanie

Hi Lyla and Stephanie, Thanks for your input. I have tried every which way you can think of - back to front, upside down, inside out - but with no luck. I did see that HF in prison but I don't think he would have been in London, not unless he was on a mission to calais to bring back some cheap booze and fags to sell in his pub, and got arrested at customs. lol. Seriously though, I wouldn't think he would have any reason to be down that way. He was just a shoe maker from a small village in Yorkshire. Mind you, Jimmy Choo had to start somewhere. Regarding the word that was crossed out, I did think it might have said widow, but I'm not sure. Regards, Nancy.

Afternoon Tina, The details on his death cert are as follows:- When and where died : 27/6/1880 12 Gladstone Street, New Wortley Name : Francis Howard Age : 53 years Occupation : Cordwainer Cause of death : Malignant disease of Liver 8 months Informant : Ann Coates, Daughter, Ashfield Close, Farnley New Wortley and Farnley are now suburbs of Leeds. A cordwainer is someone who works with leather and sometimes used as another name for a shoe maker. 12 Gladstone Street is where the family were living on the 1881 census. I somehow think that this guy is not going to be found. Do you know how I might be able to check if the chap who was in prison in London could be my guy? Thanks, Nancy.

Hi Tina, Thank you for all the info. I think I might have to take a trip down to Clarendon and have a good scour about. Please don't specially do the 1861 for me as it will take hours and hours. I feel guilty enough as it is for all the work you've done. I think the best thing regarding that is for me to wait until it's on Ancestry or 1837online. I can then use the index (for what use it may or may not be!!). I appreciate all you have done but somehow I don't think this one will be solved for a long time yet. I hope you have more success with your rellies and if you need any help just give me a shout. Regards, Nancy :-))