Find Ancestors

Karen, I think you must be sick of taking bows right now, but take another one! You've really unearthed some little gems here ... comments on the easy bits first. CENSUS 1861 GRASMERE Thrilled to bits seeing Ed & Liz BUTTON (bro & sis-in-law) present because later on a Frank BUTTON (nephew) appears to be living with the BALDRYs of Grasmere by Census 1881. It also gives me a clue where to look for young Frank (born abt 1876 in Northumberland). So I guess Ma & Pa (Ed & Liz?) BUTTON must have moved from Kent to Northumberland by 1876. CENSUS 1881 Harrow, MIDDX Found the BUTTONs! Because of Elizabeth's 'profession' and the birthplace of Chas & Arthur, it's enought proof for me that it was Edward BUTTON who must have told Wm BALDRY about a good teaching position in Grasmere (family 'legend'): -Elizabeth BUTTON Head W Female 40 Leighton Mendip, Somerset, England Formerly Schoolmasters Wife -Chas. Edw. BUTTON Son U Male 19 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Railway Clerk -Arthur T. BUTTON Son Male 14 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Scholar -Alfred BUTTON Son Male 11 Lowrick Beal Scholar -Fanny L. BUTTON Daur Female 5 Denstone, Stafford, England Scholar -Edwd. W. Jos. BUTTON Son Male 3 Leighton Mendip, Somerset, England Scholar CENSUS 1861 SHIPMEADOW WORKHOUSE Yes, I do believe this is the family. Interesting that there is a William READ born 1787 - close to the mistranscribed dob for Wm Sam READ in the 1861 Grasmere Census! I am now thinking that Elizabeth READ (head) was an unmarried Mum (but what a lot of children!!) living with her elderly father William READ (or vice versa) and they fell on hard times. Quite what the link with the BALDRYs originally from Mettingham/Denton/Earsham will be I can't imagine. Wm BALDRY's mother was Ann DUNNETT (father Edward BALDRY), so I'm going to work on a female of either surname marrying a READ and producing potentially 'naughty' Elizabeth. And, yes, I googled Shipmeadow yesterday in fact. Learned quite a bit about the churches as well as looking at those gravestones - have no idea WHO those BALDRYs are .... it was a relatively common name on the Norfolk/Suffolk borders and there are a number of different lines being researched - tho' I guess if you go back far enough, they'll all join up. Sorry to be so long-winded, but your heroic efforts to help me have been much appreciated and I felt you ought to know exactly how much you have helped me. It's been really nice to have someone thinking alongside me too - most of the rellies on this branch are not internet-enabled and it's so much easier to do initial research and share thoughts electronically. VERY, very many thanks Karen. Kind regards Jane

I did a search on 'Read' in shipmeadow. Came up with only this family group. All are grouped together except William who is on next page. Perhaps your William Sam was old enough to go and work with Uncle at 15. Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Elizth Read 1828 Homersfield, Suffolk, England Head Family Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk Emily Read 1848 Shipmeadow Workchouse, Suffolk, England Daughter Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk John Read 1860 Bungay; St Mary, Suffolk, England Son Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk Sarah Ann Read 1854 Shipmeadow Workhouse, Suffolk, England Daughter Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk Walter Read 1857 Shipmeadow Workhouse, Suffolk, England Son Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk Wm Read 1787 Earsham, Norfolk, England Pauper Inmate Shipmeadow Suffolk Further point of interest, if you google shipmeadow there is a website of gravestones and there are a few 'Baldry' couples there. Karen

Jane - i think this result from 1861 may help confuse you further!! I've checked the image and William Sam's age is 15 but they have transcribed it as 75. He is a scholar so doubt 75 is correct! 1861 England Census Viewing records 1-10 of 10 matches About this database 1861 England Census index with links to images of the original census returns. More information below « Global Search Results Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Edward H Baldry 1858 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Grasmere Westmorland Elizabeth Baldry 1859 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Emily Baldry 1860 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Fanny Baldry 1856 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Louise Baldry 1829 Maidstone, Kent, England Wife Grasmere Westmorland William Baldry 1829 Mettingham, Suffolk, England Head Grasmere Westmorland Edward Button 1837 Maidstone, Kent, England Brother-in-law Grasmere Westmorland Elizabeth Button 1842 Leigh Uparchandiss, Somerset, England Sister-in-law Grasmere Westmorland Samuel W Read 1786 Shipmeadow, Suffolk, England Nephew Grasmere Westmorland Ann Wilson 1846 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Servant Grasmere Westmorland

Hi everyone, The ONS has excelled itself - the marriage certificate arrived yesterday, I've never had one through so quickly! William Sam READ's father was allegedly William READ, farmer. However, it hasn't made the waters any less muddy - I still cannot place the boy! Guess he's going to be one of those 'cases' where time needs to pass before I discover more through some indirect means. Patience is not one of my virtues!! Thank you all once again for your efforts and kind interest. Kind regards Jane

Dancer, Thanks for all that lot ... I don't 'feel' any of them are HIM ... but then again my sense about these things have been shaken a bit by you guys today!! I'll have a poke around on 1837 for a birth of a Wm Sam READ in the 1846 timeframe - got a feeling that that's his 'official' name. Guess he could have been an illegit ... but not sure how that links with the family, s'pose the 'extended' family could have a Read branch ... hmm. Also, I've ordered the marriage certificate - I wonder if he will be the proverbial wise child who knows his own father! Will let you guys know the outcome - it's all due to your work anyway. Thanks once again - just reaching for that glass to toast you lovely people! Have a good evening. Regs Jane

OK. No Samuel William's but... There are Samuel's registered in the following qtrs/years/Districts. Mar 1844 ... Burnley Dec 44 ... Stockport Dec 44 ... St Neots .... March 45 ... Bristol Dec 45 ... Epsom Dec 45 ... Monoford (?) June 46 ... Ipswich June 46 ... Otley Sept 46 ... Nuneaton Dec 46 ... Harminster (?) Warminster None in: June 44 needs checking on 1837 online ... no entries on FreeBMD Sept 44 Dec 44 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) ........ June 45 Sept 45 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) ........ March 46 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) Dancer x FREEBMD entries for: Births Dec 1844 READ Samuel Stockport 19 242 READ Samuel St Neots 14 248 Births Sep 1845 Read Samuel John Shaftesbury 8 73 Births Mar 1846 Read Samuel Wimborne 8 154 Any of the above seem possible ???? Dancer x

Karen, I'll let you know about the marriage certificate ... thanks once again for your messages today, anyone would have thought they were your family! Take another bow .... Very best wishes, Jane

Yes Dancer, he seems to swop his names about so nothing to say which way is the correct way, although would have thought the marriage would be correct version but then again in this game who knows!

Am I correct in assuming that William Samuel Read ... could in fact be Samuel William ... if this is the case, then the 1837 indexes need to be checked again ... I'll check the pages I saved, JUST in case they cover S.. Dancer x

Happy to help - its great to be able to find something! Perhaps his marriage certificate will show his father. Happy hunting Karen

Karen - take a bow !

Whaddya you guys doing to me????? I'm honestly quite good at this ... but you've just made me feel like a completely useless person! I'm gobsmacked - whilst we can't easily take Sam backwards, you've managed to move him forwards with what appears to be great ease. I couldn't get him to budge at all! Thank you so much ... I'll do an extra favour or two when I'm next at the Records Office in recognition of your efforts over and above the call of duty! I'll raise a glass to you all later, it has been so nice of you to share my 'problems' - it gets lonely on the genealogical tightrope sometimes! Kind regards and happy hunting to you all. Jane

Last one - this is him I think with wife Agnes on 1901, he is a bookseller's clerk ... forgot to mention that William Baldry was a bookseller and your William worked for him. Read, Agnes 40 Grasmere, Westmoreland Wife Grasmere Westmorland Read, Helen 1 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Read, Sam 46 Bungay, Suffolk Head Grasmere Westmorland Should have said this is on 1891 not 1901 - Karen

This could be his marriage in 1887 which fits with him missing from family group in 1891 Cowperthwaite, Agnes 1887 December Marriages Kendal Lancashire Westmorland READ, William Samuel 1887 December Marriages Kendal Lancashire Westmorland READ, William Samuel Record Type: Marriages Quarter: December Year: 1887 District: Kendal County: Lancashire Westmorland Volume: 10b Page: 1073 (click to see others on page)

On 1891 - the Baldy family minus W S Read Baldey, Laney 35 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, Louise 62 Tovil, Kent Wife Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, Louise 21 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, William 62 Mettingham, Suffolk Head Grasmere Westmorland Button, Frank Harold T 15 Bladon, Northumberland Nephew Grasmere Westmorland Philipps, John 62 Liverpool, Lancashire Visitor Grasmere Westmorland Sheenan, Jane 17 Cockermouth, Cumberland Servant Grasmere Westmorland

He is still with same family on 1881 Edward H. Baldry abt 1858 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Emily Baldry abt 1861 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Fanny Baldry abt 1856 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Louise Baldry abt 1829 Tovil, Kent, England Wife Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England William Baldry abt 1829 Mettingham, Suffolk, England Head Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Frank H.T. Button abt 1874 Blaydon, Northumberland, England Nephew Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Samuel W. Read abt 1846 Shipmeadow, Suffolk, England Nephew Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Swapped his names around and he is unmarried. Options are that his father was brother of Williams Baldry's wife therefore her maiden name would be Read, OR his mother was sister of William Baldry OR his mother was sister of William Baldry's wife. If you can't find his birth then a birth of one of the children of William Baldry would give his wife's maiden name and if it is not Read would give you an possible as his mothers name. Karen

You are all WONDERFUL people to give my problem your brainpower! Thank you so much. I am now convinced that old 'Sam' is an impossible cause!! And, taking your advice, I'm going to look for a maternal link to the family ... trouble is there are no obvious BUTTON/READ marriages nor, on the paternal side, BALDRY/READ marriages. At this point, I can't even place 'Aunt' Louisa BUTTON (William BALDRY's wife) in her Tovil (near Maidstone, Kent) family ... unless anyone can find her in 1851? Allegedly she was a sewing maid to one of Queen Victoria's ladies-in-waiting ... no great shakes maybe, but for my humble family, that's fame indeed!! Many thanks once again. Regs Jane x

I have checked March 1845 through to and inc Dec 1846. There are no William Samuel Read registered between those dates. Nearest was William Stephen Read. I'll check 1844 Dancer x No William Samuel's registered in 1844. William Skeeles Read, Dec 44 William Sherwood Read, Sept 44 MAYBE he was born REED ... but with parents not around there was no one to ask ?

W S Read could have been nephew by way of wife and mother being sisters .... so until birth cert is located then its pure speculation ! I'm checking 1837online now. Dancer x

I would imagine if that it would be his mums brother if it was his father's wouldn't it be Read? I wonder if the vistor was his girlfriend about right age? Jeanette