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UPDATE: Sincere thanks to everyone - I now believe his mother to be Elizabeth READ and grandparents to be Samuel & Hannah READ of Homersfield! More mysteries to solve there though! I believe the above to have been born in 1845 in Shipmeadow, Suffolk and, quickly therafter, orphaned. Can anyone find a record of his birth or who his parents are? (Have tried FreeBMD and also FamilySearch to no avail.) Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Regs Jane

Here he is on 1871 census, nephew of the Head Edward Hermann Baldry 1858 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Grasmere Westmorland Elizabeth Baldry 1859 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Emily Baldry 1861 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Fanny Baldry 1856 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Joseph Arthur Baldry 1867 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Grasmere Westmorland Louise Baldry 1829 Tovil, Kent, England Wife Grasmere Westmorland Louise Baldry 1870 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Walter J Baldry 1865 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Grasmere Westmorland William Baldry 1829 Mettingham, Suffolk, England Head Grasmere Westmorland William Oswald Baldry 1863 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Grasmere Westmorland Jane Campbell 1851 Cockermouth, Cumberland, England Servant Grasmere Westmorland Rachel Holloway 1842 Breamore, Hampshire, England Visitor Grasmere Westmorland William Sam Read 1846 Shipmeadow, Suffolk, England Nephew Grasmere Westmorland So his mother must be sister to William Baldry or his wife in which case you need her maiden name which you could get from a child's birth certificate Karen

Hi, The reference will be on one of the pay to view websites - 1837online or familyrelatives.org. Gwynne

I would imagine if that it would be his mums brother if it was his father's wouldn't it be Read? I wonder if the vistor was his girlfriend about right age? Jeanette

W S Read could have been nephew by way of wife and mother being sisters .... so until birth cert is located then its pure speculation ! I'm checking 1837online now. Dancer x

I have checked March 1845 through to and inc Dec 1846. There are no William Samuel Read registered between those dates. Nearest was William Stephen Read. I'll check 1844 Dancer x No William Samuel's registered in 1844. William Skeeles Read, Dec 44 William Sherwood Read, Sept 44 MAYBE he was born REED ... but with parents not around there was no one to ask ?

You are all WONDERFUL people to give my problem your brainpower! Thank you so much. I am now convinced that old 'Sam' is an impossible cause!! And, taking your advice, I'm going to look for a maternal link to the family ... trouble is there are no obvious BUTTON/READ marriages nor, on the paternal side, BALDRY/READ marriages. At this point, I can't even place 'Aunt' Louisa BUTTON (William BALDRY's wife) in her Tovil (near Maidstone, Kent) family ... unless anyone can find her in 1851? Allegedly she was a sewing maid to one of Queen Victoria's ladies-in-waiting ... no great shakes maybe, but for my humble family, that's fame indeed!! Many thanks once again. Regs Jane x

He is still with same family on 1881 Edward H. Baldry abt 1858 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Son Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Emily Baldry abt 1861 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Fanny Baldry abt 1856 Grasmere, Westmorland, England Daughter Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Louise Baldry abt 1829 Tovil, Kent, England Wife Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England William Baldry abt 1829 Mettingham, Suffolk, England Head Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Frank H.T. Button abt 1874 Blaydon, Northumberland, England Nephew Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Samuel W. Read abt 1846 Shipmeadow, Suffolk, England Nephew Beech Cottage, Grasmere, Westmorland, England Swapped his names around and he is unmarried. Options are that his father was brother of Williams Baldry's wife therefore her maiden name would be Read, OR his mother was sister of William Baldry OR his mother was sister of William Baldry's wife. If you can't find his birth then a birth of one of the children of William Baldry would give his wife's maiden name and if it is not Read would give you an possible as his mothers name. Karen

On 1891 - the Baldy family minus W S Read Baldey, Laney 35 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, Louise 62 Tovil, Kent Wife Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, Louise 21 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Baldey, William 62 Mettingham, Suffolk Head Grasmere Westmorland Button, Frank Harold T 15 Bladon, Northumberland Nephew Grasmere Westmorland Philipps, John 62 Liverpool, Lancashire Visitor Grasmere Westmorland Sheenan, Jane 17 Cockermouth, Cumberland Servant Grasmere Westmorland

This could be his marriage in 1887 which fits with him missing from family group in 1891 Cowperthwaite, Agnes 1887 December Marriages Kendal Lancashire Westmorland READ, William Samuel 1887 December Marriages Kendal Lancashire Westmorland READ, William Samuel Record Type: Marriages Quarter: December Year: 1887 District: Kendal County: Lancashire Westmorland Volume: 10b Page: 1073 (click to see others on page)

Last one - this is him I think with wife Agnes on 1901, he is a bookseller's clerk ... forgot to mention that William Baldry was a bookseller and your William worked for him. Read, Agnes 40 Grasmere, Westmoreland Wife Grasmere Westmorland Read, Helen 1 Grasmere, Westmoreland Daughter Grasmere Westmorland Read, Sam 46 Bungay, Suffolk Head Grasmere Westmorland Should have said this is on 1891 not 1901 - Karen

Whaddya you guys doing to me????? I'm honestly quite good at this ... but you've just made me feel like a completely useless person! I'm gobsmacked - whilst we can't easily take Sam backwards, you've managed to move him forwards with what appears to be great ease. I couldn't get him to budge at all! Thank you so much ... I'll do an extra favour or two when I'm next at the Records Office in recognition of your efforts over and above the call of duty! I'll raise a glass to you all later, it has been so nice of you to share my 'problems' - it gets lonely on the genealogical tightrope sometimes! Kind regards and happy hunting to you all. Jane

Karen - take a bow !

Happy to help - its great to be able to find something! Perhaps his marriage certificate will show his father. Happy hunting Karen

Am I correct in assuming that William Samuel Read ... could in fact be Samuel William ... if this is the case, then the 1837 indexes need to be checked again ... I'll check the pages I saved, JUST in case they cover S.. Dancer x

Yes Dancer, he seems to swop his names about so nothing to say which way is the correct way, although would have thought the marriage would be correct version but then again in this game who knows!

Karen, I'll let you know about the marriage certificate ... thanks once again for your messages today, anyone would have thought they were your family! Take another bow .... Very best wishes, Jane

OK. No Samuel William's but... There are Samuel's registered in the following qtrs/years/Districts. Mar 1844 ... Burnley Dec 44 ... Stockport Dec 44 ... St Neots .... March 45 ... Bristol Dec 45 ... Epsom Dec 45 ... Monoford (?) June 46 ... Ipswich June 46 ... Otley Sept 46 ... Nuneaton Dec 46 ... Harminster (?) Warminster None in: June 44 needs checking on 1837 online ... no entries on FreeBMD Sept 44 Dec 44 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) ........ June 45 Sept 45 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) ........ March 46 needs checking (see FreeBMD below) Dancer x FREEBMD entries for: Births Dec 1844 READ Samuel Stockport 19 242 READ Samuel St Neots 14 248 Births Sep 1845 Read Samuel John Shaftesbury 8 73 Births Mar 1846 Read Samuel Wimborne 8 154 Any of the above seem possible ???? Dancer x

Dancer, Thanks for all that lot ... I don't 'feel' any of them are HIM ... but then again my sense about these things have been shaken a bit by you guys today!! I'll have a poke around on 1837 for a birth of a Wm Sam READ in the 1846 timeframe - got a feeling that that's his 'official' name. Guess he could have been an illegit ... but not sure how that links with the family, s'pose the 'extended' family could have a Read branch ... hmm. Also, I've ordered the marriage certificate - I wonder if he will be the proverbial wise child who knows his own father! Will let you guys know the outcome - it's all due to your work anyway. Thanks once again - just reaching for that glass to toast you lovely people! Have a good evening. Regs Jane

Hi everyone, The ONS has excelled itself - the marriage certificate arrived yesterday, I've never had one through so quickly! William Sam READ's father was allegedly William READ, farmer. However, it hasn't made the waters any less muddy - I still cannot place the boy! Guess he's going to be one of those 'cases' where time needs to pass before I discover more through some indirect means. Patience is not one of my virtues!! Thank you all once again for your efforts and kind interest. Kind regards Jane