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Kate Thanks for taking the time to reply. Its hard isn't it. The birth cert says parents Benjamin Ward and mother Catherine (Formerly Evans) I have even tried looking for the marriage but I suppose the only details I would get from that is Benjamins fathers name and his age. I found William Joseph Smart and I have his birth cert, I have traced the family back for quite a long way. He was my husbands Grandfather and Margaret Daisy was his grandmother. Thats why I am anxious to trace her. If you have any brain waves let me know. I am at a loss where to go from here. regards kathy

The trouble is, because we don't know where Margaret was born, how to pick her out from all the Margaret Wards on the 1901 census (there are no Margaret Daisy Wards listed, but middle names were often missed off the census). Also, if the Benjamin Ward you found is the right one, it wouldn't be that unlikely that his mother and wife could both be called Catherine, as it was a very common name. Also, if you don't think it likely he named his daughter after his sister (although I wouldn't be surprised), maybe they were both named after another Margaret Daisy? I think this is going to take some time to sort out! P.S. do you already have this: Births Mar 1885 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Smart William Joseph Holborn 1b 743 Kate.

Kate I suppose it could be her brothers child. on 1901 there is a family with a son benjamin with parents Catherine & benjamin. That would mean that the sone also married a catherine and called his daughter after his sister, Confusing!!! Also where was margaret daisy in 1901 she is not with the above mentioned family. Still its worth checking. Thanks for the advice

Fiona The Witness's to the marriage are George Boney & Matilda Nash So I think no relation of either partner. Seh Married William Joseph Smart. Their address was 24 St Helena place. I wonder if they were there in 1901

Kathleen - my best guess is that the Margaret Daisy Ward born at the end of 1904 is likely to be the niece of your Margaret Daisy, with the 1904 MDW's father Benjamin being the brother of your MDW, having named his daughter after his sister. Of course, they could also be completely unrelated. Kate.

Hi Kathleen, Are any of the witnesses to the marriage family members?

Update on the saga of the birth and marriage in same mnth. I have now got the Birth certificate. Margaret Daisy Ward. 23/12/1904 birth registered 30/1/1905 Father benjamin Ward mother Catherine Formerly Evans. Birth registered southwark 30/1/1905.Fathers occupation Brush maker. Marriage 27/2/1905 Margaret daisy ward spinster aged 19. St Philips church clerkenwell father Benjamin deceased no occupation. Same fathers name. for both Margaret daisy wards. I found a benjamin & catherine on 1901 census they have a son benjamin 1882c but the head of the house Benjamin Ward is born 1875. The census image is clear. Catherine was born 1867 and there is another son Sidney ( listed as Pidney 1898 newington. I cannot find any of them on 1891. And I still can't find Margaret daisy who married in 1905. Any one got any idea where I go from here

Tracey found Margaret Daisy Smarts birth for me march 1911 I had it all the time. I printed the search yesterday and missed it. I think I was so fixed on 25/11 I did not look properly or I was having a senior day. Sorry to those people who tried to help. Have sent for 1905 certificate for Maragaret Daisy Ward. Only way to find out. Thank you all for your help and suggestions. (Apart from get a new brain) From my long suffering husband kathy

Nell I looked on 1837. I checked all of 1909, 1910 & 1911 after which I checked the last quarter of each year from 1905 up to 1912 in case they got the year wrong. I asked my husband and he is sure her birth was 25/11/1910. I will have to ask if my borther in law has any certificates. its a shame we have not got the 1911 census yet. I wonder if the will wait to 2011 to publish it, I hope not. Still by then if I'm still alive by then I will be nearly retired and I hope have more time to spare for research. But probably no money to do it!!!. I will check my print outs again from 1837 maybe I just missed the registration. I was at work when I did it and my lunch hour ran out. thanks for the help kathy

Kathleen Have you looked on Freebmd or 1837? Freebmd stops at around 1910. It's also possible that if she was born towards the end of November 1910 she wasn't registered until the Mar quarter of 1911. nell

Yes but this is the DOB her children have and the same DOB her siblings had for her. I will have to ask my brotherinlaw if has supporting certificates.

Kathleen - date of birth information on a death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant who registered the death. So don't take that dob on the DC as written in tablets of stone.

Thanks for the replies. I have come up against another problem. I tried to search for the birth of my mother inlaw I have the date of birth as 25/11/1910. I can't find her. I checked her death in 1971 and it shows the date of birth above. Curioser and Curioser Will have to contact the family and find out what certificates they have got.

Just because the marriage and the birth are registered in the same quarter does not mean the birth preceded the marriage - and you won't know which is which until you get the birth certificate. As for there being a margaret daisy born in 1911 - it is perfectly possible that the margaret daisy born 1905 died very young and was replaced (literally) by the one born 1911. If you don't get the certificates then you are going to struggle to solve this one.

You could always specify that you only want the cert if the father's name is Benjamin. On the other hand, if this MD is related to your MD but not her, then you won't know. Don't give up on the census - it is possible that your MD was registered under her mother's name and therefore in the census like that. Or else mistranscribed. I am still finding my relatives with all kinds of variations of name. nell

nell thanks for the information. When I searched for her birth in the years of 1884 through to 1887 I saw no Marageret Daisy Wards at all. Which is why I said it was not common. on free BMD I could only find the marriage and the birth in 1905 for Margaret daisy ward. Can only find one on the census returns and its not her. Will have to send for the birth cert I suppose. Probably to add it to my collection of unrelated birth certificates. One day someone will be searching for someone and I will be able to provide the certificate from the collection I have. Thanks for your help kathy

There are 984 Daisy Margarets or Margaret Daisys on Ancestry civil reg, so it wasn't that uncommon a combination -I expect you know the French for Margaret is marguerite, which means daisy! There were also 341 Ward births, marriages and deaths between 190o-1910 on Ancestry so they can't all have been your Ward family. Perhaps the birth MD was a cousin? I just hope when you get the birth cert it will solve the mystery and that you will let us know the answer!!!! Nell

Sammy, I only got deceased from marriage cert. Do not have maiden name for mother or even her christian name. Thats why I wanted to find the family on 1901 or 1891 census. Hellen I wondered about late registration of birth as well since I can't find her in the year whe was supposed to be born. Was it possible to do that??? Jools Margaret daisy is quite an unusual name and the birth is in the same sort of area as the marriage. It might be her daughter but since they got married in the same quarter wouldn't they have registered her as Smart. My brother inlaw has done a bit of research into the family and there was never any mention of this child. Also they Had a Margaret Daisy Smart born 1911 and I know that the correct date of birth as she was my motherinlaw !!! Georgina Its a good point about the occupation of benjamin, I will look at the certificate agian when I get home.( i'm at work at the moment) See what I mean about fresh advice , I missed that point completely Jess Looks like I will have to get the 1905 birth certificate. Even if if causes a family scandal!!! Any help with trying to locate Margaret Daisy and her family in 1891 or 1901. Or William Jospeh Smart on 1901 would be appreciated

I would have said that it was either another person completely, or indeed her daugher, born before they married. Jess

Why does the margaret daisy born q1/1905 have to be the one who married in Feb 1905? Isn't it more likely to be the daughter of the one who married in 1905?