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I can only find one Thomas Lammiman in 1841 in London - transcribed as Lammoman, with wife Mary. Thomas Lammiman (widower) marries Elizabeth GOWING in Kensington 1842 (have marriage cert - Thomas is a fishmonger, her father William is a Baker). Can't find Elizabeth in 1841 Thomas and Elizabeth are in Kensington in 1861 with a clutch of children, the eldest of whom is Mary Ann(18) she is the only Mary Ann Lammiman I can find in 1861. I have birth cert for Mary Ann Lammiman b Nov 1842 - father Thomas (servant) mother Elizabeth Lammiman formerly SMITH!!!!!! Any Ideas?????? - any clues in 1851? Peter

Hi Peter, 1851 census 1851 England Census about Mary Lamminman Name: Mary Lamminman Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1843 Relation: Daughter Father's name: Thomas Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Kensington, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Kensington Sub-registration district: Kensington Town ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 212 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Lamminman 31 Ellen Lamminman 3 Emily Lamminman 6 Mary Lamminman 8 Susan Lamminman 5 Thomas Lamminman 37 Thomas Lamminman 2 Any good Regards Vera

Hi Peter, Thomas is a fishmonger on the 1851. Regards Vera

1851 census Name: Elizabeth Lamminman Age: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1820 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Thomas Gender: Female Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Kensington Sub-registration district: Kensington Town ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 212 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Lamminman 31 Ellen Lamminman 3 Emily Lamminman 6 Mary Lamminman 8 Susan Lamminman 5 Thomas Lamminman 37 Thomas Lamminman 2 June x

Name: Susan * Lammeman Year of Registration: 1846 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 3 Page: 333 (click to see others on page) Name: Emily Elizabeth Lammiam Year of Registration: 1844 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 3 Page: 293 (click to see others on page) Name: Thomas Lammerman Year of Registration: 1858 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 15 (click to see others on page) Name: Ellen Sarah Lammiman Year of Registration: 1847 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 3 Page: 322 (click to see others on page) June x

Thanks - I'm pretty certain the mother is Elizabeth Gowing....question is why can't I find her, or her father, in 1841 and why is Mary Ann's mother formerly SMITH on the birth cert.? (the birth is in Nov 1842, Thomas married Eliz Gowing in May 1842) It's got me beaten at the moment P

Hi Peter Could Elizabeth ... Marys mother .... have been a widow when she married Thomas.... Gowling could have been her married name and Smith her maiden....or the other way round !!!! What do you think. Regards Vera

On marriage cert Elizabeth Gowing, spinster, father William Gowing (baker) P

Hi Peter, Right....back to square one :-) Regards Vera

You searched for: Birth/Christening, 1800 - 1840, London Greater, England, British Isles Father: William Gowing, Mother: Mary Exact Spelling: Off Batch Number: C067053 [refine search] Prepare selected records for download International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 10 Select records to download - (50 maximum) 1. EMMA JEMIMA GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 17 JAN 1826 2. EMMA JEMIMA GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 12 FEB 1826 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 3. MARY ANN GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 31 MAR 1811 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 4. WILLIAM THOMAS GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 04 SEP 1821 5. WILLIAM THOMAS GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 07 OCT 1821 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 6. ELIZABETH GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 30 MAY 1819 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 7. SUSAN CLEARS GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 04 FEB 1816 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 8. SIMON GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 22 AUG 1824 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England 9. JACOB GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 10 MAY 1814 10. JACOB GOWING - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 23 JUL 1815 Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England June x

...Elizabeth Gowing, bap 30 5 1819 St Luke, Chelsea. She has a sister Susan Cleares Gowing bap 4 2 1816 same place - parents William & Mary. This ties in with Susan Lammiman who is actually Susan Cleares Lammimam, so the Thomas and Elizabeth must be confirmed as Elizabeth Gowing. Does this mean that there is ANOTHER Thomas Lammiman married to an Elizabeth (smith) with a dau Mary Ann who does not appear on any censuses(LOL) or is the Smith an absolute mistake? P

1851 with William Thomas Gowing as in the baptisms put on by June. William Thomas Gowing - Master Baker Age: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1822 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Eliza Gender: Male Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: Middlesex Eliza Gowing 33 Eliza Emma Gowing 6 Fanny Gowing 1 Mary Ann Gowing 4 William Thomas Gowing 29 William Thomas Gowing 3 Joseph Stanley 53 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1468; Folio: 673; Page: 4; GSU roll: 87790-87791. Gail.

....could someone give me the 1851 address please? Peter (still looking)

address for the above 1851 for Gowing is 25 Silver Street.

Thanks - the Lammiman's are at 9 Silver St in 1861, are they there in 51? Peter

1851 address for Thomas and Elizabeth Lamminman and children looks like 5 Uxbridge Street Christine

Thanks. Interestingly....... Mary Ann was b 1842 at '2 Mall' Kensington. Arthur Frank in 1901 is at 4Mall Cottages - coincidence? Peter In Auckland where it's supposed to be summer - or will be when it stops raining!!

I now have Mary Ann's marriage cert. It is a wealth of information. Mary Ann(Spinster 21) Thomas Monger bachelor 20 (suspect she knocked a couple of years off because he was younger. Her father Thomas, fishmonger. Her address 9 Silver Street. Witnesses Jacob Sell (who married her sister Emily) and Jane Monger (groom's sister). Silver Street is now Kensington Church St and the Mall where she was born is Kensington Mall - so the whole family lived in very close proximity. So it all fits - EXCEPT her birth cert gives her mother as Elizabeth Smith when her maiden name was Gowing and she was a spinster at marriage - WHAT AM I MISSING???? Peter

Hi Peter When I checked the 1841 census images today for Kensington Town and that area there seems to be a lot missing. Could you send for one of the other children's birth certificates and see if it says the same........it may have just been an error. Gail.

The birth cert I have was from the GRO. Would it be worth my contacting the Kensington Registry Office to see if their copy is different? What are the chances of a mistake on a cert - which one is the primary source? Peter