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this is probably Franks birth Births Sep 1876 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Norton Frank Henry W Ham 4a 42 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry with you now cos of Caroline Julie

Will do, Julie. Thanks for your help this afternoon.

Yes, first child was born in 1863 (approx). in Greenwich which is why I think the marriage registered in Lambeth could be them, as it's the right side of the river. Julie

Julie to be on the safe side i would get 1 of the children B/C then it would have mother maiden name Julie

I think name has probably been mistranscribed as on 1891 it's Eliza.

there this marriage and Newington is nearer to Deptford than lambeth Marriages Sep 1866 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BOWLER Sarah H Newington 1d 245 >>>GOODBOURN Elizabeth S Newington 1d 245 >>>Norton Samuel Newington 1d 245 Wootten Stephen Newington 1d 245 Wootton Stephen Newington 1d 245

Julie, was just thinking will have to get Eliza and Samuels wedding cert. to get his father's name and occupation.

Julie I've just looked at the 1881 and it says wife Emily is she his 2nd wife or same person

Shadwell and Bloomsbury are not too far apart

Julie If i was you i wouldn't get that M/C yet cos Eliza could be short for Elizabeth and there is 2 other possible marriages 1 in 1866 and 1 in 1874 Did they have any children

1851 Samuel Norton Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1835 Relation: Apprentice Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Bethnal Green Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Bethnal Green Sub-registration district: Hackney Road ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 108 Household Members: Name Age Lidia Bigmore 20 Mary Edwards 16 Samuel Norton 16 John Philby 31 John Philby 59 Sarah Philby 42 Hes an Apprentice so address its any good but have the same guy in the 61 with his mum

Thanks Julie

Julie do you have their marriage certificate for their parents ?

1861 Samuel Norton Age: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1835 Relation: Son Mother's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Shadwell, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Wapping Ecclesiastical parish: Stepney County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Shadwell ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 52 Household Members: Name Age James Donovan 17 John Fisher 18 Ellen Kenelly 24 Clara Norton 30 Henry Norton 24 John P Norton 18 Mary Norton 58 Mary Norton 21 Samuel Norton 26 Thomas Norton 23 Address High st Wapping

Julie Eliza is say just London I also think i might have found Samuel in the 1851 do you want that too

Julie, thanks that would be great if you could tell me about 1851. Does it have an address? Julie

Vera, thank you for looking at the 1841, I will have to have a think about how to eliminate any of them. I think I've found a marriage for Samuel and Eliza ( formerly Butcher) registered in Lambeth so maybe there is a connection. julie

Julie....Theres 2 for the 1841 Anne Norton abt 1816 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Saml Norton abt 1833 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Willm Norton abt 1816 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Ellen Preston abt 1826 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Henrietta Rachel abt 1839 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Mary Rachel abt 1836 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex Mary Mary abt 1820 Scotland St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Charles Norton abt 1829 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Frederick Norton abt 1833 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Henry Norton abt 1836 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Laura Norton abt 1828 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Mary Norton abt 1840 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record May Norton abt 1806 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Richard Norton abt 1831 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Samuel Norton abt 1800 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex View Record Samuel Norton abt 1834 Middlesex, England St Paul Shadwell Middlesex

Julie, thank you very much for those look ups. I will have to check the birthplaces on the 1841 as on the 1881 Samuel's birthplace is Bloomsbury, Middlesex and see which one seems to be the right area. Could you tell me if Eliza's birthplace on the 1871 is just 'Middlesex' or does it give an area? Don't worry if it's too much trouble to go back and look, I appreciate the help you've already given. julie