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Hi Ozibird Details of Holland / Tranter on cenus would be good - already have Holland on 1841. Julie

So what are you looking for now, Julie? Ozi.

Hi Just found a marriage between a James Holland and Ann Tranter 28/7/1823 Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton. This could be the James and Ann on the 1841 census (guess Ann's age is wrong on the census because she would have been 14 when she had Elizabeth. Julie

Hi Andrea Thanks for your help so far. This is my husband's family line and I only started to look at it last week so haven't got around to obtaining any certificates etc as yet - I was seeing how far I could get first. The information I have been listing has been given to me be kind people such as yourself. Also I do not know the Staffordshire area so haven't a clue where the towns are in relation to each other (will have to get out a map!!). Julie

Hi Margaret The family you have found on the 1851 are the same ones that Julie mentions on the 1861 - living same place, born in the same places, William a miner, same ages. The marriage that I have found is for a different couple - I have to say I had found it odd that William and Sarah from Darlaston both aged 16/17 should marry in Bucknall which is quite a few miles away (it's Stoke on Trent and Darlaston is Wolverhampton). There is the following Name: William Martin Year of Registration: 1847 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 17 Page: 325 (click to see others on page) other females are Rachel Clifton, Harriett Doughtey, Sarah Hollond and Sphia Lowe 1841 Name: Sarah Hollond Age: 12 Estimated birth year: abt 1829 Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Darlaston Hundred: South Offlow County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/979/2 Registration district: Walsall Sub-registration district: Darlaston ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Folio: 54 Page: 30 (click to see others on page) Line number: 1 GSU Number: 474615 family Ann Hollond abt 1811 Darlaston Staffordshire View Record Elizabeth Hollond abt 1825 Darlaston Staffordshire View Record James Hollond abt 1801 Staffordshire, England Darlaston Staffordshire View Record Richard Hollond abt 1831 Staffordshire, England Darlaston Staffordshire View Record Sarah Hollond abt 1829 Staffordshire, England Darlaston Staffordshire and they are living at Catherine's Cross as are William and Sarah in 1851 and 1861 She would seem a much better bet. Julie - do you have a birth cert for any of their children?

Well, Andrea, that's thrown a monkeywrench into the works! Or spanner, as you say over there. That says that William's father is Henry and I had him as Daniel on the 41 census. Back to the drawing board! Margaret

This is the couple who were married in Bucknall from BVRI MARTIN, William Age: 25 Marriage Wife: Sarah BARRETT Age: 24 Marriage Date: 9 Dec 1844 Recorded in: Bucknall, Staffordshire, England Husband previously married Husband's Father: Henry MARTIN Wife's Father: Aaron BARRETT Source: FHL Film 1278909 Dates: 1844 - 1853 Note: Additional Data in Original Record As you can see this couple were too old to be the ones on the census in Darlaston

Hi Margaret I'm sure this is the same family - they seemed to have moved to Yorkshire together and the details tie in with the census. Thanks for that. Julie

Do you have this from the 1901 census? 4 Silkstone Row, Altofts, Yorkshire Edward Fennell, head, 39, coalminer, born bromley, Staffs. Elizabeth, wife, 38, born Darlaston, Staffs. Sarah E., dau, 13 John, son, 11 William E., son, 10 Ellen, dau, 8 Joseph, son, 7 Harry, son, 3 Albert, son, 2 George, son, 3 months And on the same page but next street: Prospect Place, Altofts, Yorkshire Abraham Martin, head, 62, underground manager coalmine, born Darlaston, Staffs. Ann, wife, 67, born Darlaston Martha H., dau, 28, born Altofts Do you suppose this Abraham would be the brother of your William linking them up with that Daniel & Elizabeth family on the 1841 census?

Thanks for that Margaret - only had the Martins on the 1861/71/81 census. The info I found out on the 1881 census on Ancestry showed William and Elizabeth as visiting Silkstone Row, Altofts. There were three other families living there but no Fennells. Julie

Sorry, Julie, I didn't make that clear when I typed it. Elizabeth and the children were Fennels, Elizabeth being the wife of the lodger Edward Fennell. and the children belonging to them. Margaret

Hi Yes - tried to put them on seperate threads to avoid it looking too busy however William Martin was the father in law of Edward Fennell junior whose wife was Elizabeth - looking at that census she appeared to be Williams wife (unless it meant wife of the lodger - Edward). Williams waif was called Sarah Barrett. Julie

Julie, I noticed on your other thread you have Fennells. Are the Fennells linked with the Martins? found this link in 1891: Silkstone Row, Altofts, Yorkshire William Martin, head, widower, 62, coalminer, born Darlaston, Staffs. Edward Fennell, lodger, 29, coalminer, born Bromley, Staffs. Elizabeth, wife, 25, born Darlaston Sarah, dau, 3, born Altofts William E., 2 months, born Altofts

Hi Margaret 1881 census William (widower) living in Altofts, Wakefield, Yorkshire with daughter Elizabeth. 1871 census William living in Darleston, Staffordshire with wife Sarah and children Anne, John and Elizabeth. 1861 census William living in Darleston, Staffordshire with wife Sarah and children William, Jane, John and Sarah 1851 as you found for me. Julie

Julie, have you traced your William/Sarah family through all of the censuses to see if at some time they had a brother or sister living with them? It would help confirm their families. Margaret

Hi Just looked on the IGI on familysearch.org with the info you gave me and found the two William's you mentioned - one born to Daniel and Elizabeth christened 17/6/1827 and the other to Thomas and Lydia christened 10/9/1826 both at Saint Lawrence, Darlaston near Wolverhampton. One of William's daughter's was called Elizabeth - wonder if after his mum? Julie

Possibly Sarah in 1841? Darlaston Rd., Wednesbury Joseph Barrett, 50, cordwainer Mary, 41 Sarah, 18 William, 15, puddler Joseph, 13, labourer Benjamin, 9 Eliza, 6 Ann, 3 All born in county. Notice the census taker here didn't follow the rounding down rule. Margaret Oops just noticed the discrepancy in Sarah's age, she was only 23 in 51!

I think it's probably this family in 1841: Camphill, Darlaston Daniel Martin, 45, coalminer Elizabeth, 45 Daniel, 15 William, 14 Jane, 6 Abraham, 5 All born in county. Margaret

There are 2 William Martins that fit the bill on the 1841 census: One aged 15 living with widowed mother Lydia. The other aged 14 living with parents Daniel & Elizabeth. Now with the rounding down of ages on the 41 census the 15 year old one could be anything between 15-19 whereas the 14 year old one is definitely 14, because they only rounded down ages over 15. That sounds clear as mud, doesn't it? Margaret