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Hi Beverley, I know that it was Ann that deleted the record I just thought it best not to delete it twice. Sorry if there was any confusion.


From the baptism records of the children, it looks as though the family were catholic, so Mary may have married under her Catholic name????

Maria Helena Birtles
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 29 November 1868 Holy Rood, Barnsley, York, England
residence: Barnsley, York, England
father: Joannis Birtles
mother: Mariae Helena Hampshire Birtles

Amelia Or Amy Birtles
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 24 April 1870 Holy Rood, Barnsley, York, England
residence: Barnsley, York, England
father: Joannis Birtles
mother: Maria Helena Hampshire Birtles

Johanna Birtles
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 18 February 1872 St. Marie, Sheffield, York, England
residence: Sheffield, York, England
father: Johannis Birtles
mother: Mariae Hampshire

John Charles Birtles
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 3 October 1875 St. Marie, Sheffield, York, England
residence: Sheffield, York, England
father: Joannis Birtles
mother: Mariae Hampshire


The family in 1871:-

NAME: John Birtles
AGE: 25
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1846
RELATION: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME: Mary Ellen Birtles
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Barnsley
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St John
TOWN: Barnsley
COUNTY/ISLAND: Yorkshire
COUNTRY: England
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barnsley
SUB-REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barnsley
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 18
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 109
PIECE: 4646
FOLIO: 134
PAGE NUMBER: 18
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
John Birtles 25 (Saw Sharpener)
Mary Ellen Birtles 22
Mary E C Birtles 2
Amelia Birtles 11 Months

Also note that Mary Ellen had another name "C", although it isn't noted on her christening record it is on her birth record:-

NAME: Mary Ellen C Birtles
REGISTRATION YEAR: 1868
REGISTRATION QUARTER: Oct-Nov-Dec
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barnsley
PARISHES FOR THIS REGISTRATION DISTRICT: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
INFERRED COUNTY: Yorkshire West Riding
VOLUME: 9c
PAGE: 157

Catherine, I haven't deleted anything.

I'd already posted the Llewellyn Jones one but deleted it

Ok thanks Beverley, please leave the info so others will not try and follow leads that are irrelevant, thank you.

Yes, that is the family in 1891. None of the marriages seem to be right as the father's name is incorrect.

Can't be the John Cheetham one either.....

Marriage: 26 Dec 1887 St Peter, Everton, Lancashire, England
John Cheetham - 22 years, Labourer, Bachelor, 3 Eccles Terrace Roscommon St.
Mary Ellen Birtles - 22 years, Spinster, 4 Eccles Terrace
Groom's Father: Thomas Cheetham, Deceased
Bride's Father: Edwin Birtles, Saddler <<<<<<<
Witness: William Cheetham, (X); Harriet S. M. Moon

OK, so can't be the one to Llewellyn Jones:-

NAME: Mary Ellen Birtles
GENDER: Female
MARITAL STATUS: Single
AGE: 20
BIRTH DATE: 1867
MARRIAGE DATE: 29 May 1887
MARRIAGE PLACE: South Featherstone, York, England
FATHER: James Birtles
SPOUSE: Llewellyn Jones
FHL FILM NUMBER: 1542283
REFERENCE ID: P39 Ln77

.........as father is James.

Will leave though for elimination.



There are quite a few other possible marriages for her in other areas but impossible to say if any of them are her????

Which marriage was not the correct one?

Was it one of these?

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
BIRTH, MARRIAGE & DEATH, INCLUDING PARISH
NAME: Mary Ellen Birtles
SPOUSE: Llewellyn Jones
BIRTH: 1867
MARRIAGE: 29 May 1887 - South Featherstone, York, England
RESIDENCE: Ryhill (near Wragby), York, England

or

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
BIRTH, MARRIAGE & DEATH, INCLUDING PARISH
NAME: Mary Ellen Birtles
SPOUSE: John Cheetham
BIRTH: 1865
MARRIAGE: 26 Dec 1887 - St. Peter'S Church, Everton, Lancashire, England
RESIDENCE: Everton, Lancashire, England

Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
BIRTLES Mary Ellen W.Derby 8b 590
Cheetham John W. Derby 8b 590

Is this them in 1891?

NAME: John Birtles
AGE: 40
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1851
RELATION: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME: Mary Birtles
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Kirkdale
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Athanasius
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS:

OCCUPATION: Saw Maker

REGISTRATION DISTRICT: West Derby
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Kirkdale
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 27
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 2964
FOLIO: 37
PAGE NUMBER: 15
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
John Birtles 40
Mary Birtles 38
Amy Birtles 18
John C Birtles 15
William Birtles 10
Samuel Birtles 8
Nellie Birtles 6
Annie Birtles 10/12

Thank you for your posts - I am appreciative of your time in trying to help me :)

I know Beverley - but I was still posting and had the thread open so didn't see it until I finished posting - I am now deleting the wrong info - if you have the thread open you do not see new postings

?????????

Name: Mary E Birtles
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1911
Gender: Female
Age: 42
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Ecclesall Bierlow
Sub-District: Ecclesall West Central
Parish: Ecclesall
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)

Ann, Rachel has already said that this is the wrong marriage.

Thank you for your reply. Mary's father was John, so sadly rules this one out.

Hello,

I am trying to find Mary Ellen Birtles on the 1891 census onwards. It is possible that she has married, but am unable to find who she married. Here is her with her family on the 1881 census in Barnsley, Yorkshire:

NAME: Mary Ellen Birtles
AGE: 13
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1868
RELATIONSHIP TO HEAD: Daughter
MOTHER: Mary Birtles
GENDER: Female
WHERE BORN: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Barnsley
COUNTY/ISLAND: Yorkshire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 24 Albion Terrace
EDUCATION:

EMPLOYMENT STATUS:

View image
OCCUPATION: Scholar
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barnsley
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barnsley
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 19
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 4604
FOLIO: 18
PAGE NUMBER: 30
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Mary Birtles 31
Mary Ellen Birtles 13
Amy Birtles 11
Jane Birtles 9
John Charles Birtles 6
James Austen Birtles 4
William Birtles 1

I notice that in 1891, the family are in Liverpool, but am unable to find a marriage for Mary between 1881 and 1891 whereby Mary's birthplace is Barnsley.

Any assistance is much appreciated.