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Unable to locate birth cert. by C1911 says Holborn London. Earlier C 1891 Mother Elizabeth (Johnson) Ross, says Manchester and in 1901 he was in Boar War with Devonshires. Any ideas?

1911 - for reference:

RG14PN7467 RG78PN361 RD133 SD1 ED5 SN46
Reg. District: Ware
Sub District: Hoddesdon
Parish: Hoddesdon Urban
Enum. District: 5
Address: 3 Amwell Street Hoddesdon
County: Hertfordshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ROSS, Charles Head Married M 28 1883 Corn Coal And Meal Holborn London
ROSS, Ethel Wife Married 5 years F 25 1886 Ipswich Suffolk
ROSS, Ronald Son M 1 1910 Hoddesdon Herts
ROSS, Dorris Daughter F 5 1906 Kings Lynn Norfolk

Dea x

from a tree in ancestry:-

Charles Johnson Ross
Birth 23 September 1882 in Holborn, London, England
Death 17 Oct 1946 in Ware, Hertfordshire, England

BIRTH: 23 September 1882 (23 Sep 1882) - London, England
MARRIAGE: 12 June 1905 (12 Jun 1905) - Kings Lynn, Norfolk, England
DEATH: Dec 1946 - Ware, Hertfordshire, England
PARENTS: Robert Ross, Elizabeth Johnson
SPOUSE: Ethel May Southgate

Is it possible that his birth was registered under his mother's maiden name?

Births Sep 1882 (>99%)
Johnson Charles John Holborn 1b 752

This, of course, is possible if his parents weren't married.

I'm having difficulty in finding any records on your Charles Ross. Apart from the 1911 census.

Please, can you give a little more detail, to help me find the 1891 census you mention above. I can't find a Charles Ross born c.1882 in Manchester.

Who does Charles name as his father on his marriage certificate?

Unfortunately, the tree you have got some of your information from, doesn't show any clear sources.

This is the family you are linking him to on 1891:

RG number: RG12
Piece: 1411
Folio: 66
Page: 10
Reg. District: Colchester
Sub District: Colchester Third Ward
Parish: St James
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District: St James
City/Municipal Borough: Colchester
Address: 42, East Street, St James, Colchester
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ROSS, Elizabeth Head Widow F 32 1859 Dress Maker Ipswich, Suffolk
ROSS, Margaret L Daughter Single F 13 1878 Manchester, Lancashire
ROSS, Charles J Son M 8 1883 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire *********
DAKING, Robert M Boarder Single M 20 1871 Miller Raydon, Suffolk
DAKING, Ernest W Boarder Single M 18 1873 Miller Raydon, Suffolk
BARBER, Arthur E Boarder Single M 18 1873 Miller ?, Suffolk

Dea x

Margaret was certainly born in Lancashire:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference

ROSS Margaret Leonora Chorlton-on-Medlock Manchester CHO/115/59

I can't see Charles there at the moment.

Dea x

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1875
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference

ROSS Robert JOHNSON Elizabeth Ardwick, St. Thomas Manchester 21/2/340

Thanks for the census Dea. Well done. I would never have found that mistranscribed as Rop.

How do you relate to Charles?

Have you worked back to him from yourself?

Christina - In old-fashioned writing 'double s' was often written as what looks like a very long letter 'p' and is often mistranscribed.

Dea x

I've been looking for the family in 1881. I'm wondering if this is Elizabeth:-

1881 England Census about Elizh. Ross
Name: Elizh. Ross
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Civil parish: St Giles in the Fields
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 49 Parker St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)

Occupation: Servant
Registration district: St Giles
Sub-registration district: St Giles, South
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 324
Folio: 41
Page Number: 20

It would put her in London for the birth of Charles?

She is already noted as Widower so maybe she did have Charles out of wedlock and registered his birth under her maiden name.

This is of course just a theory, to confirm we need to know when Robert died. For that we need to know when he was born so really we need the marriage cert. to find out a little bit more about him!

Looks like Margaret could have married in London:-

Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
Carroll Patrick James A Islington 1b 202
Chisholm Reginald Scott Islington 1b 202
Collis Rosina Annie Islington 1b 202
Edney Ernest Bovingdon Islington 1b 202
Evans Clara Jane Islington 1b 202
Love William Nelson Islington 1b 202
Marriott William Cyril Islington 1b 202
Neal Edward Thomas Islington 1b 202
xxxx Ross Margaret Leonora A Islington 1b 202 xxxx
Searle Ivy May Islington 1b 202

...................so where was she in 1881????

O.K. - I have looked at the marriage cert for Robert Ross and Elizabeth in 1875. (2nd December).

Unfortunately it does not give his age, only says full age.

BUT, he was a Draper at that time living at 37 Higher Ardwick - father Hugh, a Leather Cutter.

Elizabeth's father was Charles - a Millwright.

Witnesses James Jess? and Grace Laurie.

This link should take you to the image:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12660-31116-72?cc=1788853&wc=MMGS-H98:n970083656

Dea x

I googled Charles Johnson Ross 1882 and a thread on there says he was born illigitimate,Robert Ross died 1878 of TB.

Maryb.

This looks like him ??


1871 census transcription details for: New Bridge Street, Cheetham, Manchester
Print Close National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 4061
Folio: 65
Page: 4
Reg. District: Manchester
Sub District: Cheetham
Parish: Cheetham
Enum. District: 2
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Manchester
Address: New Bridge Street, Cheetham, Manchester
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MCCLURE, Andrew Wallace Head M 31 1840 Scotland - Draper
HERRON, Elizabeth Servant F 27 1844 Scotland
ROSS, Robert Boarder M 27 1844 Scotland ******** Draper's Assistant
KING, John Boarder M 18 1853 Scotland
ROSS, Hugh Boarder M 20 1851 Scotland ............. a brother perhaps ??
MCPHERSON, Alexr Boarder M 21 1850 Scotland
CUMMING, John Boarder M 18 1853 Scotland

Dea x

This is the death you mention :

Deaths Jun 1878
Ross Robert 40 Chorlton 8c 494

If I have the correct one in the 1871 census, then the age of the one who died is 6 years out ??

Might be correct but I think it needs more checking.

Have to go out just now - when come back to it when I return.

Dea x

There was a probate report for a Robert Ross died 4/6/1878 address 19 Upper-Medlock Street he was a Telegrah Clerk left under £200 to widow Eliza.
1871 same address with daughters
Robert 33 Birkenhead Cheshire a Clerk
Elia 40 Macclesfield
Amy 8
Lucy 6
Bessie 3
But Eliza Ross is still with those children in 1891!!

So it looks like another Robert Ross.

Maryb

Elizabeth Ross married 1891 to Robert Martin Daking he was born 1870.
They had grace 1899 here on 1901 census but not 1911.

Elizabeth went to Australia.
1925 Ship Balranald
Adelaide to London Elizabeth Daking needlewoman C/O C J Ross Hoddesden

1935 Ship Themistotles
Adelaide - London
Elizabeth Daking c/o C J Ross High Street Hoddesdon.

Charles Ross O/N/D 1882 Strand London Middlesex 1b 661 this would match 23/9/1882

Maryb.

Another possible marriage for Margaret :-

Marriages Dec 1918 (>99%)
xxxx Peachey John Ross Kensington 1a 433
Reardon Rose E Stegman Kensington 1a 433
xxxx Ross Margaret L Peachey Kensington 1a 433
Stegman Alfred Reardon Kensington 1a 433
Weisfogel Rebecca Perlow St.Geo.H.Sq 1a 433

............a tree on ancestry has this as her marriage but it would make her 40yrs old?
I know this isn't abnormal but it also has her going on to have 9 children the last one being born in 1919 ?
The first two are noted as (Private) but the third child was born in 1902, so unless she had the children before she actually married John Peachey, then this can't be correct.

It also has her father as being born in 1855 Aberdeen, Scotland and although they don't have a death for him they do have the family in Scotland in 1901 census and Robert is still alive..........................so ?????????????