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1881 census:

Name: Robert Jordan
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Jordan
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirklinton, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Birkenhead
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address: 18 Market St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Dining Rooms Keeper (Eating House)

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3574
Folio: 84
Page Number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Jordan 45
Elizabeth Jordan 47
Henry Jordan 14
Emma Gertrude Jordan 10
Elizabeth Mullin 20

And this would be the 1901 census showing Emma Jordan with her husband Henry Swinburn also with them were her parents Robert & Elizabeth Jordan:

Name: Emma G Swinburne
[Emma G Jordan]
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry J Swinburne
Father's Name: Robert Jordan
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Jordan
Gender: Female
Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Tranmere St Catherine
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Tranmere
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 56
Piece: 3395
Folio: 159
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Henry J Swinburne 32
Emma G Swinburne 30
Robert Jordan 65 - born West Linton, Cumberland
Elizabeth Jordan 66

Lets try to work backwards from what you know ..... you say that Emma Jordan had a son Henry James Jardine Swinburne, this would be Henry with his parents Henry Jackson Swinburne and Emma Gertrude Jordan:

1911 census:
Name: Henry James Jardine Swinburne
Age in 1911: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1902
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 48 Barlow Moor Rd Chorlton-cum-hardy Manchester
Occupation: School
Registration district: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464
Sub-registration district: Didsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 23673
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Jackson Swinburne 42
Emma Gertrude Swinburne 40
Henry James Jardine Swinburne 9
Robert Cecil Swinburne 6
Seth Swinburne 4
Robert Jordan 75 - father in law, born West Linton, Cumberland
Elizabeth Jordan 77 - mother in law
Gwendoline Swinburne 13
William Swinburne 7

Marriage of Henry to Emma:
Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hurworth Annie Birkenhead 8a 807
>>>> Jordan Emma Gertrude Birkenhead 8a 807
Moore William John Birkenhead 8a 807
>>>> SWINBURNE Henry Jackson Birkenhead 8a 807

Thanx all for you help regarding robert jordan.Is it poss that the robert jordine that lynne found on the 41 census is the same robert jordan i am researching. Robert Jordan had a daughter Emma (1901 census) she had a son and named him Henry James Jardine Swinburne. I need to find either Robert Jordan or Jordine on a 1851 census but cant.

Just to add that there is no Robert Jordan indexed at the NA in Naturalisation case papers (1789-1934)

A search on the surname can be done here...

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/naturalised-britons.htm

Chris

Possible marriage for Robert Jordan and Elizabeth Thirlwell:

ROBERT JORDEN Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH THIRLWALL
Marriage: 28 JAN 1837 Holme Cultram, Cumberland, England

The 1901 has a very specific birth place for Robert


1901 Census

Name: Robert Jordan
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Father-in-law
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Jordan
Gender: Male
Where born: West Linton, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Tranmere St Catherine
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Tranmere

Henry J Swinburne 32 b.ca 1869, Aberswenny, Monmouthshire, Railway Clerk
Emma G Swinburne 30 b.ca 1871, Birkenhead, Cheshire
Robert Jordan 65 Railway Porter
Elizabeth Jordan 66 b.ca 1835, Pontesbury, Shropshire, Mother-in-law

Address:- 28 Seymour St



Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)

Jordan Emma Gertrude Birkenhead 8a 807
SWINBURNE Henry Jackson Birkenhead 8a 807





I honestly believe that the entry of him being a Naturalized British Subject was an error. Chris' suggestion makes a lot of sense!




sylvia

A child has the nationality of its father. When a British woman marries a foreigner, back then she acquired the nationality of her husband. I would guess his dad was a foreigner living in Cumberland.

It would seem he applied for, and was granted, British citizenship. I think he could include his wife and kids on the same application, and they'ld all be granted British citizenship as a job lot.

If this happened before mid 1860, the youngest kid would be the son of a British citizen and so automatically a British Subject - if after, he would have been part of the job lot and so a naturalized British Subject.

I wouldn't rule out an overseas connection. Is it possible that Robert was born in Cumberland but then went abroad with his family? That may explain why on his first census back in England he used the term British subject.

Can anyone find him in 1841 or 1851?

When/where did he and Elizabeth marry?

Name: Robt. Jordan
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 08 May 1836
Baptism/Christening Place: KIRKLINTON,CUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Jordan
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizth.
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C05799-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 90638
Reference Number:

1841 census - could this be Robert Jordan born c1836 Cumberland.

Name: Robert Jordine
[Robert Jordan]
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Kirk Linton
Hundred: Eskdale
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Longtown
Sub-registration district: Low Longtown
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 169
Book: 13
Folio: 14
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Allen 65
Elizabeth Jordine 25
Robert Jordine 5
William Jordine 2
Margaret Jordine 15

On the 1861 the youngest child is stated as being a Naturalized British Subject and 1 month old. Now I think that iit s highly unlikely he had been naturalized within the month of his birth and a return from overseas!

I would say the most likely scenario is that Robert misunderstood/misread the question on the household schedule and answered 'Natural British Subject' and the Enumerator transcribed it into his book as naturalized.

More than willing to be corrected if anyone can think of something more likely :-D

**EDIT** Just noticed the youngest child is 8 months old but I still think the above is the most likely explanation.

Chris

On one of the later censuses it states he was born in cumberland.

Diane - just for background means I'm posting it to give myself and other helpers a clear picture of the family.

The 1871 doesn't say he was a British subject??

JORDAN, Robert Head M 35 1836 Cumberland < Manager of public house
JORDAN, Elizebeth Wife F 37 1834 Shropshire
JORDAN, Anthony Son M 15 1856 Cumberland
JORDAN, Henry Son M 4 1867 Cheshire
JORDAN, Emma G Daughter F 0 1871 Cheshire
MEE, William Lodger M 39 1832 Ireland
NEWSHAM, James Servant M 23 1848 Westmorland
RODGERS, Elizebeth Servant F 18 1853 Flintshire

Registration District: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Birkenhead

Address: Chester Street, Birkenhead County: Cheshire

Robert's birthplace looks like West Linton.

You surely cannot have his birth cert if he was born in 1836 ???

They did not exist before 1837 !

Dea x

This is the right one. Sorry new to this, what is just for background?

Diane - you're saying you don't know his parents but that his birth certificate says he was born in Cumberland.

His parents must be named on his birth certificate (or at least the mother).

Do you mean that you've found a birth record in the index for someone of the same name in Cumberland?

Your best bet is to get a copy of his marriage certificate from GRO to confirm his father's name (if he knew him).

Just for background - 1861:


JORDAN, Robert Head Married M 25 1836 Police Constable Naturalized British Subject
JORDAN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 26 1835 Naturalized British Subject
JORDAN, Anthony Son M 5 1856 Naturalized British Subject
JORDAN, William Son Unmarried M 0 (8M) 1861 ... British Subject

Registration District: Birkenhead
Civil Parish: Birkenhead

Address: 25, Somerville Street, Birkenhead County: Cheshire

dont know parents, cant find him on 1841 census.